Apr 06, 2026 City Council Work Session

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YEAH I WANT TO SEE THAT. OKAY. WE'RE ON TV. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION. TODAY IS MONDAY, APRIL 6TH. SO WELCOME TO EVERYONE WHO IS IN OUR GALLERY AND EVERYONE WHO IS JOINING US REMOTELY. WE WILL BEGIN BY HAVING OUR DEPUTY CLERK. PLEASE GIVE US A ROLL CALL. ESTABLISH OUR QUORUM.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT FRANCIS HERE. COUNCILOR RADFORD, I JUST RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM HIM.

HE'S JUST GOING TO BE LATE. HE'LL JUST BE A BIT LATE. COUNCILOR BELDIMAN HERE.

COUNCILOR FREEMAN HERE. COUNCILOR HERE. COUNCILOR. ME HERE. MARY ROBINSON. OKAY, WE

[City Council, Mayor]

OKAY. YOU MEAN LIKE THEY WOULDN'T DELIVER IN THE LUNCH HOUR OR SOMETHING OR LIKE FROM 8 TO 5 MAYBE. RIGHT. SO YOU GOT TO COME EITHER THREE BEFORE WE HAVE LOTS OF TRAFFIC OR AFTER.

IT DEPENDS ON, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT SEATTLE. I DON'T WANT TO COMPARE, BUT IN SEATTLE, YOU CAN DELIVER FROM LIKE MIDNIGHT TO 5 A.M. RIGHT IN DOWNTOWN, CERTAIN DOWNTOWN CORRIDORS. SO AND I'M NOT SAYING I'M JUST GIVING AN EXAMPLE. YEAH. SO ANYWAY, JUST THAT, AND WE ACTUALLY THOUGHT MAYBE WE WOULD WORK AND HELP TURN THAT OVER TO STREETS WHERE THEY MANAGE THE ACTUAL PARKING STALLS AND SIGNAGE, BUT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD BE ADEPT AT. SO WE'LL JUST TALK THROUGH WHO THAT ENDS UP WITH. JUST IN BOISE, THEY DO LIKE EVERY BLOCK. THEY'VE GOT A DELIVERY PARKING SPOT, RIGHT? YEAH, BUT THAT WOULD TAKE PARKING SPOTS. YEAH. BUT MAYBE IF YOU HAD THAT DELIVERY PARKING SPOT JUST OPEN AT CERTAIN HOURS OF THE DAY, AND THEN IT WAS OPEN FOR PARKING NOW. BUT JUST A THOUGHT. YEAH, YEAH, THOSE ARE ALL THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILS THAT POP UP, RIGHT? SO WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT.

BUT JUST SO IT'S SOMETHING THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO BRING TO US. THAT'S ALL. OKAY. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO REINFORCE AT THIS TIME. OKAY. AND COUNCIL US, SO LET'S WE'LL INCLUDE HIM ON

[Mayor’s Office]

[00:08:32]

[00:10:05]

AND THEN COUPLE ADS GOING ON TV AFFILIATION. WE'VE RENEWED THAT. I'VE AND I'M MY OPERATIONS MANAGER WENT TO THE FIRST MEETING. SO WE ARE TEAMING UP WITH THEM AND SEEING WHAT ADVERTISING GRANTS ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH IT AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR REGIONAL MARKETING, THE EVENTS THAT IPDC WILL HOST IN 2026. PATTY'S DAY PARK. THAT WAS THE WINDIEST EVENT I HAVE EVER WORKED IN 25 YEARS. SO WE KIND OF SCRAMBLED. YES. NO, I'M SORRY I WAS BEHIND YOU AND I WAS JUST POINTING THAT THERE IS A CHAIR AVAILABLE. WE KIND OF HAD TO SCRAMBLE AT THE LAST MINUTE, BUT WE MADE IT HAPPEN AND WE JUST PUSHED PEOPLE INSIDE, WHICH WAS THE GOAL ANYWAYS. AND I WENT AROUND AND CHECKED ALL THOSE PLACES AND IT WAS IT WAS PACKED, IT WAS PACKED HOUSES. SO IT WAS GREAT TO SEE EVERYBODY OUT AND ABOUT. I THINK THEY WERE ANXIOUS TO HAVE SOME FUN AND RECONNECT. SO BENEFIT YOUR BODY ON BROADWAY. THAT IS THE FREE EXERCISE CLASS ON SATURDAYS DURING THE SUMMER TIME THAT WILL CONTINUE AT BROADWAY PLAZA, THE TEEN. BACK TO SCHOOL DOWNTOWN DISCO. THIS IS THE TEEN SPECIFIC EVENT TO TRY TO GET THEM ENGAGED MORE IN DOWNTOWN THAT'S AT BROADWAY PLAZA THIS FALL. LADY SHOPPING DAY OKTOBERFEST IS OUR NEXT BIG ONE ON PARK AVENUE. AND THEN THE FIND THE TRICKY SKELETON, FIND THE SANTA PUPPY, AND FIND THE EASTER BUNNY. THOSE ARE THE KIDS EVENTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE, AND WE'VE PAIRED THEM WITH ADULT PUB CRAWLS NOW. SO WE USED TO DO THE SPRING THROUGH FALL BREW, SUMMER BREW, ALL THOSE. WE'VE KIND OF SUNSETTED THOSE BECAUSE THE COST OF DOING THOSE WAS GETTING VERY HIGH BECAUSE OF INSURANCE NEEDS, SECURITY NEEDS. AND SO WE SWITCHED THEM TO A PUB CRAWL WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO CLOSE DOWN ROADS, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL SECURITY AND WE DON'T HAVE TO GET AN EVENT INSURANCE. THEY USUALLY COST BETWEEN 800 AND $1400 EVERY TIME WE THROW AN EVENT. SO IT'S INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE. IT'S NEEDED, BUT IT'S STILL A COST. SO WE'VE SWITCHED THOSE TO SAVE SOME MONEY. ALSO ON THE OTHER SPONSORSHIPS, CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION ABOUT THOSE? I JUST HAD SOME FEEDBACK ON LIKE FIND THE EASTER BUNNY AND JUST IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE DOWNTOWN MERCHANT. ARE THEY ARE THEY OKAY WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM? I MEAN, SOME LIKE IT, SOME WON'T LIKE IT. BUT DO YOU

[00:15:03]

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. SO IT DEPENDS ON THE MERCHANT. SO LISA, I CAN COMMENT AT LEAST MY TIME AT THE ARTS COUNCIL. FIRST OFF, IT'S A VOLUNTARY LIKE YOU CAN VOLUNTARILY DECIDE TO PARTICIPATE OR NOT. OKAY. SO I THINK FOR THOSE OF US THAT CHOSE TO PARTICIPATE, AT LEAST IN MY TIME AT THE ARTS COUNCIL, LOVED THAT IT BROUGHT IN FAMILIES THAT HAD HAD NEVER BEEN IN. AND SO YES, THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC, BUT THAT WAS THE GOAL. I THINK YOU'LL ALWAYS HAVE SOME MERCHANTS THAT DON'T APPRECIATE THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC. AND IF THEY'VE CHOSEN NOT TO, YEAH, THEY CAN CHOOSE. SO THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TRAFFIC OUTSIDE THAT MAYBE ISN'T COMING INTO YOUR SHOP, BUT WE ALWAYS VIEWED IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING PEOPLE IN AND, YOU KNOW, GRATEFUL THAT DDC DID ALL THE ADVERTISING OF, YOU KNOW, BRINGING PEOPLE DOWNTOWN. AND WE JUST NEEDED TO DECIDE IF WE WANTED TO OPEN THE DOOR OR NOT. THAT WAS THE PIECE I WASN'T SURE ABOUT. I WASN'T SURE ABOUT THE VOLUNTARY PART OF IT. OH, YEAH. EVERYBODY HAS TO PARTICIPATE BECAUSE WE'RE DOING THIS. SO THAT WAS SO CLEAR. YOU MIGHT BE IRRITATED THAT THE STREETS ARE FILLED WITH CHILDREN RUNNING AROUND, RIGHT, THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY COMING INTO YOUR SHOP IF YOU HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO. BUT IT WASN'T FORCED UPON ANYONE. NO. OKAY.

THANK YOU. AND THEN WE ALSO STARTED TO GIVE SOME TIPS AND TRICKS ON HOW TO MARKET AND GET THOSE PEOPLE ACTUALLY IN THEIR DOOR AND STAYING IN, IN OUR NEWSLETTER. SO WE'RE HELPING THEM ASSIST THEM WITH MARKETING TECHNIQUES TO GET THEM IN THE DOOR. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME.

SORRY IF I INTERRUPTED IT. YEAH. ONE OF THE BEFORE I FORGET, THE FUNNIEST THING ON SATURDAY WAS WHEN A GROUP OF TEENAGERS CAME UP TO US AND WE GOT TALKING TO THEM AND THEY SAID, THIS IS SO COOL. IT'S LIKE AN OUTSIDE MALL. YES. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. SO THEY'RE LIKE, WE HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS ALL DOWN HERE. SO THAT MADE ME. I WAS LIKE, YEAH, THAT'S WHY WE DO THIS, RIGHT? STAFF GOALS FOR 2026 TRAINING AND STAFF DEVELOPMENT. AGAIN, WE WERE ALL NEW STAFF. WE HAD LITTLE STAFF, BUT ALL THREE OF US WERE NEW EXCEPT FOR OUR PARKING AMBASSADOR. HE WAS THE ONLY EXISTING STAFF. WE HAD DEVELOPED POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. THAT'S A SLOW PROCESS AND ONGOING REVIEW AND UPDATE ALL AGREEMENTS. SO AS ESPECIALLY WITH OUR CITY AGREEMENTS, WE HAD TO UPDATE SOME OF THOSE. IN EVERY CONTRACT THAT I HAVE WITH OUR CONTRACTORS, I AM REVIEWING THOSE, UPDATING THEM, GETTING THEM IN WRITING. SO THAT'S AN ONGOING PROCESS. BUT WE'RE WE'RE ALMOST THERE. AND THEN PRIORITIZING IPDC FUNCTIONS.

THERE'S A LOT BECAUSE WE DDC OVER THE YEARS HAS ADDED PARKING AND THEN DOWNTOWN PARKING ENFORCEMENT. AND WE'VE ALSO ADDED EVENTS, BUT WE HAVE NOT ADDED STAFF. SO THAT ALL JUST WENT INTO. EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE MIX. IMPROVE STAFF EFFICIENCY BY UPDATING UPDATING PROCESSES AND SYSTEMS. SO I'VE MOVED TO A ONLINE PLATFORM FOR OUR PROJECT MANAGEMENT. BY USING MONDAY.COM, I WAS ABLE TO GET A FREE IF ANYBODY'S USED IT. IT'S QUITE A ROBUST SYSTEM, SO I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT WE GOT A FREE ONE WITH OUR NONPROFIT. SO WE'RE MANAGING EVENTS AND SOME OTHER THINGS THROUGH A PROJECT MANAGEMENT TOOL NOW. WE'VE ALSO I'M MOVING TOWARDS A PAPERLESS OFFICE, SO WE'RE SCANNING DOCUMENTS. WE GOT A PRINTER, A SCANNER DONATED TO US FROM PHISHERS. SO THAT HAS BEEN VERY, VERY HELPFUL. AND THEN I'VE INCREASED SECURITY OF FDCS ASSETS. PASSWORD PROTECTING SYSTEMS, SOME OF THOSE THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING AND THEN BACKUP OF OUR FILES. SO THOSE HAVE BEEN UPDATED AND ARE IMPROVING.

IMPROVED COMMUNICATION WITH DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS. AND WE'RE GOING TO START IDENTIFYING SOME COMMON THEMES SO THAT WE CAN SET GOALS AND PRIORITIES. WE DO HAVE A SURVEY PUT TOGETHER, BUT DUE TO STAFF CAPACITY WE HAVEN'T GOT IT OUT YET, BUT WE WILL BE GETTING IT OUT SOON.

WE'VE INCREASED COMMUNICATION BY. I'VE ADDED IT IN EVERY OTHER WEEK, WEDNESDAY DISTRICT DIALOG WHERE I GO AROUND TO DIFFERENT COFFEE SHOPS, ALLOWING PEOPLE TO COME MEET WITH US AND WE'VE INCREASED OUR ONE ON ONE AND GROUP MEETINGS AND I ARE GETTING OUT AND ABOUT AND TALKING TO THE MERCHANTS. BUT THERE'S A LOT AND THERE'S VERY FEW OF US. SO IT'S AN ONGOING EFFORT. AND EVEN IF I TOOK TWO YEARS TO MEET WITH EVERYBODY, I PROBABLY STILL WOULDN'T GET IT ALL DONE. GROUP PRESENTATIONS. I HAD A PRESENTATION, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH CLIFF STREET PROPERTY OWNERS TO UPDATE THEM ON SOME THINGS, BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER, THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF OUR BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME INTEREST OVER THE YEARS TO COME IN. SO I MET WITH THEM AND CLARIFIED SOME QUESTIONS THEY HAD WITH THE EXISTING PROGRAM AND THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP. SO WE CLARIFIED THAT WE'VE STARTED FOUR DIFFERENT E-NEWSLETTERS GOING OUT, USUALLY ON MONDAY, UNLESS I DON'T GET TO IT TILL

[00:20:03]

WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN OUR SPONSORSHIPS BECAUSE WE HAD TO GO OUTSIDE THE VIP TO GET SPONSORSHIPS SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR EVENTS, REPLACING LIGHTS IN THE IDC MANAGED PARKING LOTS ABOVE OUR PAY STATIONS. THOSE SHOULD BE DONE BY WHEELER ELECTRIC SOMETIME THIS WEEK. WE'VE WORKED WITH PARKS AND REC AND MUNICIPAL SERVICES ON THE TRIMMING, THE TREES AND OUR PARKING LOTS, AND WITH SOME MAINTENANCE IN THE PARKING LOT SOUTH OF BROADWAY AND ALONG YELLOWSTONE, WE'VE KIND OF COINED THE PHRASE DOWNTOWN IDAHO FALLS, THE CITY'S LIVING ROOM, WHICH IS OUR KIND OF OUR NEW MARKETING CAMPAIGN THAT WE'RE DOING TO GET PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT DOWNTOWN IS AN EXPERIENCE. IT'S NOT BIG BOX STORE. SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE'RE STARTING TO PROMOTE THINGS. POSITIVE, MORE POSITIVE MARKETING CAMPAIGNS AND MARKETING PARTNERSHIPS. WE'VE HAD MORE PEOPLE REACH OUT TO US.

FOR EXAMPLE, THIS YEAR WE'VE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT CLARK AND I FROM THE FARMER'S MARKET WORKED TOGETHER CLOSELY, AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT. THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING TO THE FARMER'S MARKET, 5000 TO 8000 PEOPLE EVERY SATURDAY FILTERING INTO DOWNTOWN. SO WE'RE WORKING ON SOME CO-BRANDING AND SOME CO-MARKETING. AND TO HELP WITH THAT. SO AND THEN WE'VE REESTABLISHED OUR COMMITTEES AND GROUPS, PARKING ADVISORY GROUP, THE PUBLIC ART COMMITTEE, AND OUR BID RENEWAL ADVISORY GROUP THAT WILL JUST GET US THROUGH UNTIL 2028, UNTIL WE GET THAT BID RENEWED. AND THEN WE'VE ADDED BOARD MEMBERS TO BOTH THE FDC BOARD AND THE FOUNDATION BOARD SO THAT WE'RE AT RIGHT SIZED. AND THEN ADVOCACY EFFORTS ARE LISTED LISTED. WE'VE HAD I SET UP REGULAR MONTHLY MEETINGS WITH COUNCILMAN FRANCIS. NOW WE WE HAVE A PROPOSED DELIVERY TRUCK ACCESS ORDINANCE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER PUBLIC WORKS. THEY'VE HELPED WITH ADA PARKING REVIEW. THEY FILLED A HOLE IN THE ALLEYWAY, DUMPSTER ROOM LOCATION, PROPERTY OWNER THAT WAS IMPACTED FROM THE E STREET CONSTRUCTION. I MET WITH PUBLIC WORKS TWO DAYS LATER. IT WAS FIXED SO SHE COULD GET ACCESS. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE ADVOCACY EFFORTS THAT WE DO. ALSO JUST WORKING WITH IDAHO FALLS POWER TO GET THE COMMUNICATION OUT ABOUT THE ALLEYWAY PROJECTS. IDAHO FALLS POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE'RE THE MERCHANT ASSOCIATION, DDC, AS THEY HAVE WORKED TOGETHER WITH IFP AND WITH COUNCIL ON THAT SERVER TRAINING ORDINANCE. AND THEN ALSO PD REACHED OUT TO US

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AND WE TALKED ABOUT ADA PARKING. SO I, I'M INVOLVING THEM TOO. NOT EVERY MEETING, BUT WE'LL CALL THEM IN WHEN WE FOCUS ON ADA PARKING. AND THEN I HAD EXCITING NEWS. THE CDBG, BRAD KRAMER TOLD ME THAT HE'S REACHING OUT TO TO GET STAKEHOLDER INTERVIEWS ON THE CONSOLIDATED PLAN AND ANALYSIS, ANALYSIS OF FAIR HOUSING FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. SORRY IF I DIDN'T STATE THAT CORRECTLY, BUT. SO WE WILL BE WORKING CLOSELY WITH BRAD KRAMER FOR PERSPECTIVE, PLANNING ON THAT NEXT FIVE YEAR PLAN FOR CDBG FUNDING. AND JUST SOME STRENGTHS AND SOME WEAKNESSES TO KEEP IN MIND. AS FAR AS WHAT CDC IS GOING THROUGH, I HAVE CONCERNS. ALL OF US HAVE CONCERNS WITH THE V I'D THAT IS CURRENTLY BASED ON 2007 PROPERTY VALUES INSTEAD OF CURRENT PROPERTY VALUES, AND THAT UNLESS A PROPERTY IS PURCHASED AND NEW BY SOMEBODY, THEN IT'S BASED ON CURRENT VALUES. AND SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE $103,000 IN FUNDING THAT WE RECEIVE IS NOT COVERING THE EXPENSES AND KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION. ANOTHER CONCERN THAT WE HAVE IS STAFFING LEVELS. AND I ARE DOING THE WORK OF FOUR PEOPLE RIGHT NOW. SO THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. SO THAT'S ANOTHER AREA OF CONCERN AS FAR AS REVENUE, BECAUSE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO OPERATE FULLY ON BID FUNDING FOR OUR BASIC OPERATIONS. AND IT'S JUST NOT AT THAT LEVEL. IS THAT IN YOUR BYLAWS THAT YOU DON'T USE THE CURRENT ASSESSED VALUES? IT'S PART OF THE PARAMETERS. SO THE PARAMETERS IN RENEWING THE BID, THERE'S SOME THINGS WE CAN CHANGE. WE CAN CHANGE THE CAP, WE COULD CHANGE THE PROPERTY VALUES, HOW THEY'RE CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT YEAR. AND THEN ALSO THE MILL RATE. WE CAN CHANGE THE MILL RATE AS WELL, BUT IT HAS TO BE VOTED ON AND APPROVED. SO WE NEED TO HAVE 50% PLUS ONE SIGNATURES OF PROPERTY OWNERS IN ORDER TO RENEW THAT BID AND TO AGREE, WHICH I'M TOLD IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, WE TRIED AN INCREASE LAST TIME TEN YEARS AGO, AND WE PROPOSED AN INCREASE AND IT DID NOT PASS. SO IF WE DON'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET MORE REVENUE FROM THE BID, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OPERATIONS. RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DID NOT PROPOSE A NEW MILL RATE. MOSTLY, IT WAS AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE COUNTY HAD OR HAD INCREASED THEIR PROPERTY TAXES. AND SO WE DECIDED THE ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT WE WOULD PUT ONE OUT, AND THEN WE CHOSE NOT TO. SO AT THE TIME OF RENEWAL TEN YEARS AGO, WE CHOSE TO RENEW AT THE SAME RATE AND SAME AND AT THE SAME YEAR SO THAT WE WOULDN'T BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN A TAX INCREASE PRIOR TO THAT. WE DIDN'T WANT TO. WE WE HAD HEARD FROM. THAT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA THAT NO ONE WAS INTERESTED IN TAXING THEMSELVES HIGHER BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED A COUNTING INCREASE AS WELL. SO BUT WE HAD NOT PUT IT OUT AND IT HAD BEEN VOTED ON AND DECLINED. AND WE READ THERE WAS ONLY ONE PROPOSAL AND THAT WAS APPROVED, BUT WE DID NOT WE DID NOT DO AN INCREASE AT THAT TIME.

SO I'M UNDERSTANDING, RIGHT. YOUR MILL RATE WILL CONTINUALLY DROP EVERY YEAR. THEN IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING YOUR ASSESSED, THE INCREASE TO ASSESSED VALUES, BECAUSE I MEAN, ONE HAS TO, IF YOU KEEP YOUR MILL RATE STEADY AND THEN EVERY YEAR THE VALUE OF PROPERTIES GO UP, THE TAX COMMISSION WILL PAY ON THE CURRENT ASSESSED VALUE. THAT'S THE PART FROM MY UNDERSTANDING.

AND I THIS IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE WILL MISS GREG CROCKETT DEEPLY, BUT IT IS MY

[00:30:03]

IT'S TOO HARD WHEN YOU NEED TO. YEAH. SO PARKING OR IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR CLARITY ON THE BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO PARKING? EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE. THANK YOU FOR THAT. YEAH. OKAY, SO THE PARKING UPDATE, THERE WERE NO CLAIMS REPORTED IN THE LAST FISCAL YEAR ACTIVITY REPORTING. I AS FAR AS THE WE NEED TO CLARIFY THIS A LITTLE BIT. SO THE NEEDS THAT ARE WANTED. SO IT ASKS FOR THE ON STREET PARKING PERMITS, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE ANY PERMITS FOR ON STREET PARKING UNLESS IT'S TEMPORARY PARKING PERMITS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS. AND THEN JUST A REVIEW OF OUR CURRENT OFF STREET PARKING LOTS, YELLOWSTONE. THAT BRINGS IN ABOUT $3,970 PER MONTH FOR PERMITS IS FULL. THE B LOT EAST IS 47 INSTALLS. IT BRINGS IN 1600 A MONTH, A LITTLE OVER 1600 A MONTH. BLOCK WEST THERE'S EIGHT STALLS, 280 PER MONTH. CAPITAL NORTH THERE'S 44. A LITTLE OVER A THOUSAND PER MONTH. THE RESERVED CAPITAL AVENUE LOT IS 15 STALLS, $750 PER MONTH, AND THE BROADWAY UNDERGROUND, THERE'S 44 PERMITS, AND THAT BRINGS IN ABOUT $1,300 A MONTH. AND WE HAVE NOT CHANGED THE COST. CURRENTLY, THE PARKING PERMITS ARE $40 EACH, EXCEPT FOR THEIR $50 IN THE CAPITAL RESERVE LOT. AND THEN REVENUE GENERATED IS ABOUT 288,000 AMOUNTS FROM PARKING.

THAT'S FROM PARKING CITATIONS, AND THAT'S ALSO FROM PARKING PERMITS. SO OUR PARKING PERMITS THAT ARE IN OUR DTC MANAGED LOTS ARE ACTUALLY LESS THAN THE THE PRIVATE LOTS ARE CHARGING FOR PERMITS. AND WE HAVEN'T, I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME WE RAISED. AND THEN EXCUSE ME, AND THEN I THERE'S AN IPS REPORT THAT'S GOING AROUND. IPS IS THE SOFTWARE THAT WE USE FOR OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT THAT HAS SOME NUMBERS THAT WERE REQUESTED AS FAR AS WHAT WAS BROUGHT IN IN THE LAST FISCAL YEAR, OUR DOWNTOWN PARKING ADVISORY GROUP WAS REESTABLISHED. WE HAD OUR LAST OUR FIRST MEETING LAST MONTH. WE HAVE NEW REPRESENTATION ON THE PARKING ADVISORY GROUP FROM THE COUNTY, THE CITY IFDC AND MERCHANT REPRESENTATION. SO WE HAVE ALL STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED. WE'RE CURRENTLY JUST WORKING ON MINOR IMPROVEMENTS. NO MAJOR

[00:35:03]

YEAH. AND SO THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT KEEPING TRACK OF HOW, HOW, SINCE YOU'RE ALREADY SCANNING THOSE, SO DO YOU GUYS KEEP TRACK OR DOES IPS KEEP TRACK OF THAT? SO THAT LIKE FOR ME, IN FRONT OF CHANGES IN A STREET THAT SEEMS LIKE A ROAD THAT WILL GET METERS AT SOME POINT BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND PARKING THERE BETWEEN THE, BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, I JUST NEVER CAN FIND A PARKING SPOT. AND SO IF YOU HAD TO PAY, THEN YOU COULD GET PARKING, BUT MAYBE NOT THE OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY OF DOWNTOWN. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A HARD CONVERSATION. BUT IF YOU GET THE DATA FROM FIVE YEARS, BECAUSE THAT CONVERSATION IS PROBABLY FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, OR MAYBE TEN, BECAUSE AT SOME POINT CITIES THAT ARE GROWING AND THRIVING HAVE TO PAY FOR DOWNTIME. IT'S LIKE IT HAS TO HAPPEN. YOU DON'T GO TO BOSTON, YOU DON'T GO TO SALT LAKE CITY WITHOUT PAYING FOR YOUR PARKING. SO BUT I THINK WHAT WE LEARNED FROM IT WAS YOU BETTER HAVE REALLY GOOD DATA. YEAH. AND SINCE WE'RE I THINK WE'RE ALREADY GOING AROUND SCANNING. IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN KEEP TRACK OF? IS HOW, WHAT PERCENTAGE IS EMPTY AND WHAT PERCENTAGE IS FULL? THE IPS REPORTING TOOL IS QUITE ROBUST, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD ALL THE TRAINING ON ALL OF IT YET. SO IT COULD BE A POSSIBILITY, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME OTHER TOOLS THAT WE CAN USE. THAT'S AWESOME. IT'S IT'S HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN BECAUSE IF WE CAN JUST GATHER THAT FOR YEARS AND TELL, WE CAN TELL THE BUSINESSES, LOOK, YOU'RE LOSING MONEY BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PARK IN FRONT OF YOUR PLACE, RIGHT? AND THEN MAYBE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THEY ARE THE CHALLENGE. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH PARKING IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD WHAT, 3 OR 4 PARKING STUDIES DONE AND WE, WE GET THE DATA, BUT IT'S MORE THAN COMMUNICATING THE DATA.

IT'S CHANGING THE FEAR. THERE'S FEAR OF, I MEAN, RIGHTFULLY SO. THERE'S SOME STATS THAT ARE LIVELIHOOD, RIGHT? AND SO WE NEED TO GET OVER THAT, THAT FEAR OF CHANGE TOO. AND JUST COMMUNICATING THAT IT'S, IT'S TIME SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE OR IT'S JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET. YEAH. AND DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WITH THIS DATA IS SAYING, HEY, NO ONE CAN EVER PARK IN FRONT OF YOUR PLACE. SO YEAH, YEAH, EXACTLY. IF WE HAD SOME MORE DATA, MAYBE SOME TOOLS THAT I DON'T KNOW, THE CITY AND COUNTY MAYBE USING, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT PIECES FOR GETTING THE KEY PLAYERS ON OUR ADVISORY GROUP SO THAT I HAVE ACCESS TO MINDS AND SYSTEMS AND INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE. SO AND YEAH, CATHERINE HAS STAYED ON ALL OF OUR COMMITTEES TO HELP WITH THAT INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE TOO. CATHERINE LECLERC AWESOME. DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK ON THE BLOCK FACE SYSTEM? IS IT EFFECTIVE? IS IT OF THE MERCHANTS FEEL ABOUT IT? THAT WAS ALREADY DONE AND REALLY ROLLING. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY NEGATIVE SINCE IT WAS ALREADY GOING WHEN I CAME IN, SO MAYBE BRANDY CAN SPEAK MORE ON THAT AND I'M GOING TO GO OFF PERCEPTION, THE PERCEPTION OF OBVIOUSLY HAVING BEEN DOWNTOWN FOR LIKE 12 YEARS PRIOR TO THAT, IT WAS THE PERCEPTION OF YOU COULD PARK IN THIS AND THEN YOU COULD JUST, YOU KNOW, ALMOST LIKE IN UNISON, YOU SEE IT ON TV, YOU ALL BACK OUT, YOU ALL MOVE OVER ONE LINE, RIGHT? AND YOUR STICKY NOTE TOLD YOU, YOU AND YOUR, YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS, YOU ALL WENT OUT AND MOVED ONE ONE LANE OVER. SO I THINK IT DID FIX THAT OR AT LEAST MAKE THAT. THERE'S A CONSEQUENCE FOR THAT. I THINK A LOT OF THEM WE COULD WE COULD ALL ARGUE IT HASN'T NECESSARILY FIXED ANYTHING, BUT IT PROVIDES THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENFORCE IN A LEVEL AND TO KIND OF MINIMIZE THAT ACTIVITY AS FAR AS GOING FROM BLOCK TO BLOCK TO PARK, I THINK WHAT WE'VE ALL LEARNED, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN DOING THAT, YOU'VE FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO IT. SO I THINK IT'S MORE IT'S GIVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, WELL, IT'S WRONG. IT IS ILLEGAL. WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ENFORCE THAT. WE WISH YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT. BUT I DON'T I DON'T KNOW THAT IT FIXED IT JUST BECAUSE IF YOU WANTED TO GET AROUND IT, YOU STILL CAN YOU JUST GO ONE MORE BLOCK. YEAH, YEAH. AND THE MERCHANTS ARE HELPING TOO, BY COMMUNICATING WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES THAT THEY NEED NOT PARK ON THE STREET, BUT FIND A PARKING LOT INSTEAD. AND THAT FREES UP THOSE SPOTS SO THAT THAT THAT HAS IMPROVED SINCE LAST YEAR. I THINK IT'S IMPROVED GREATLY. YEAH. WHAT WAS I ALSO GOING TO SAY? AND THEN WE ALSO WE WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THOUGH, THE FUNDING

[00:40:01]

EMPLOYEE COST INFLATIONS HAVE MOVED IN AND IT HAD STAYED. AND I THINK MOST OF THAT COUNCILMAN FRANCIS IS A FUNCTION OF THE BOARD WHO'S REALLY RUNNING THE ORGANIZATION FOR THREE YEARS.

AND SO WE WERE JUST HAPPY, LET'S RENEW AND GO. AND I THINK THAT WAS EVIDENT IN OUR LIKE LACK OF UPDATING OF EVEN THE AGREEMENTS. SO I THINK AT LEAST AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THE PRIORITY OF DDC, IF I CAN SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, THE PRIORITY RIGHT NOW, ONE WAS TO STABILIZE COMMUNICATIONS. AND CARRIE'S DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THAT. I THINK, SECONDLY, IS MOVING INTO THE BID AND UNDERSTANDING THE PROS AND CONS OF THE MILL RATES AND THE YEARS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT YEAR WE'RE USING OFF OF. AND HURRAY FOR THOSE THAT HAVE CHOSEN TO VOLUNTEER AND COME AND SERVE ON THAT COMMITTEE TO HELP US FACILITATE THAT. AND THEN I THINK WE'LL GO BACK TO THE PARKING AND THE EVALUATION. AND AGAIN, TO STILL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THAT FOR BEST PRACTICE TO MAKE IT A, YOU KNOW, A CONSUMER FRIENDLY AND BUSINESS FRIENDLY AREA. SO I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT WE'LL DO A GRAND INCREASE UNLESS WE'RE HIT WITH EITHER A SOFTWARE COST THAT HAS TO BE INCREASED. LIKE I THINK RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO COVER THE COST OF ACTUALLY OPERATING THE PROGRAM BASED ON THE CONTRACT THAT WE SIGNED WITH THE CITY. AND SO I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT WE'LL LOOK TO INCREASE THAT HEAVILY UNLESS OUR COSTS ARE INCREASING. QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING. I KNOW IT'S A BIG TOPIC, BUT WE'RE KIND OF WE'RE JUST IMPROVING THINGS RIGHT NOW. BONNEVILLE COUNTY HAS BEEN GREAT TO WORK WITH. I WAS ABLE TO MEET WITH THEM. THEY'RE MAKING SOME CHANGES TO HELP AS WELL. SO THEY FREED UP SOME OF OUR SPOTS IN OUR PAID PARKING. WE PUT, YOU KNOW, PUT EMPLOYEES IN DIFFERENT SPOTS SO THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH US AND THEY ARE WORKING WITH US. SO AND THEN WE ARE CONTINUED ENFORCING AT THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE NOW. SO WE RESUMED THAT IT WAS STOPPED FOR DURING CONSTRUCTION FOR A MINUTE, BUT WE RESUMED APRIL 1ST. SO. QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING. I KNOW THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING, BUT TODAY ANYWAYS, REQUEST FOR COUNCIL AND CITY STAFF ACTIONS. IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS, IS RENEWING THE BID MOU FOR ANOTHER YEAR. RENEWING THE PARKING MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT WITH DVC FOR ANOTHER YEAR. CITY COUNCIL OR CITY ATTORNEY COUNCIL LIAISON GUIDANCE ON BID RENEWALS. THE PARAMETERS AND OTHER LEGAL CONCERNS THAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS, SO I NEED SOME ASSISTANCE. AS FAR AS WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S, I UNDERSTAND IT, SO WE'RE DOING IT CORRECTLY FROM THE GET GO. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TOUCH BASE ON THAT INCREASE. WE SPOKE ABOUT THE INCREASED PARKING MANAGEMENT ENFORCEMENT FUNDING BASED ON WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE, AND THEN REVIEW AND UPDATE THE DOWNTOWN PARKING ORDINANCE, THE BLOCK BASED, BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE'S SOME UPDATES THAT NEED TO BE DONE IN THAT. AND THEN WE CONTROL FROM, IF WE CAN, FROM PARKS AND REC AND THE A LOT ALONG YELLOWSTONE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A POSSIBILITY OR BECAUSE THAT IS ALREADY STARTING TO GET OUT OF CONTROL.

AND THEN SPECIAL EVENT COMMITTEE MEETING, WE'RE REQUESTING THAT WE MEET TWICE A YEAR, TWICE A YEAR IN JANUARY, FEBRUARY, AND THEN AGAIN AT THE END OF THE EVENT SEASON. SO WE CAN JUST TOUCH BASE WITH SPECIAL EVENTS AND HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THAT PROCESS. THAT'S

[00:45:06]

AND THEN WE'LL WORK THROUGH THE REST OF THIS. THROUGH COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS AND YOU AND I, TO TO TRY AND GET ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS WORKED OUT. OKAY. WAS IT ON PARK AVENUE THAT NEEDED WEED CONTROL? IT'S YELLOWSTONE LOT BEHIND IDAHO MOUNTAIN TRADING. OKAY. THAT ONE. WE CAN GET SOME HELP WITH THAT. THEY DID A TREMENDOUS JOB TRIMMING TREES LAST YEAR. LOTS OF T'S GREAT. WHAT WAS THE OTHER THING IS THAT A PARKS AND REC RESPONSIBILITY CONTROL IN A PARKING LOT. WELL I'M NOT I JUST I DON'T I'M JUST I'M JUST WONDERING, IS THAT WHO WE SHOULD BE GOING TO TO SAY I THINK IT'S MUNICIPAL SERVICES. OH IS IT. YEAH. THEY HAVE, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE DOING THE PARKING LOT BEHIND LIKE CHESBROUGH. AND SO WE THIS WOULD BE A MUNICIPAL SERVICES MANAGES THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. BUT WHO ACTUALLY GOES AND SPRAYS THE WEEDS. IT MIGHT BE THEY'LL EITHER CONTRACT WITH PARKS AND REC THROUGH A WORK ORDER. OKAY. WE WOULD THINK. OR MAYBE THEY WOULD JUST CONTRACT IT OUT AND SAY, THESE ARE THE PARKING LOTS THAT WE NEED MAINTAIN THIS SUMMER AND WORK THROUGH THERE SO WE WILL. OKAY.

IT WOULDN'T BE A DIRECT CONTACT. THAT MAKES SENSE. PARKS AND REC, IT'LL BE THROUGH MUNICIPAL SERVICES. OKAY. AND HAVE YOU ALREADY SET A DATE FOR THE ANNUAL MEETING? YES. THANK YOU.

JUST HAD IT THIS MORNING. SO. OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR ANNUAL MEETING ON MAY 5TH, 6 TO 8 P.M. 6856566. RIGHT. IT'S THE SIXTH AT FIVE OR IT'S THE FIFTH OF SIX. I BELIEVE IT'S MAY 5TH AT SIX. MAY 5TH. OKAY. MAY 5TH, 6 P.M. TO 8 P.M. AT THE AUDITORIUM. OKAY. AND IF WE DID ONE LAST YEAR IN OCTOBER, THAT WAS JUST TO GET US BACK ON TRACK. SO NOW WE'LL RESUME DOING THEM IN THE SPRING. OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CAN I MAKE A COMMENT, PLEASE? I JUST LIKE TO PUBLICLY SAY HOW EXCITED I WAS ON SATURDAY, ABOUT 130 IN THE AFTERNOON. I'D BEEN OUT OF TOWN FOR TEN DAYS, AND I CAME DOWNTOWN TO BUY BREAD AND I COULDN'T GET IN THE STORE. THERE WERE JUST HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE EVERYWHERE KIDS, ADULTS, TEENAGERS. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS. I WAS JUST REALLY EXCITED TO SEE WHAT I SAW. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. YES. OUR PLEASURE.

TO ANYTHING ELSE. NO, BUT THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU'RE WELCOME. YOU ARE DOING A GREAT PARTNER AND I REALLY LIKE THIS LIVING ROOM SLOGAN. YEAH. HEY. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON THESE THESE REQUESTED ITEMS YOU CAN ASSIGN CODE IS ANOTHER ONE DOWNTOWN SIGN CODE. SORRY, I FORGOT. IS THERE SOMETHING BEFORE YOU LEAVE? IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, HELP ME UNDERSTAND. WHAT? WHAT DID THAT. THE REST? THE REST, I UNDERSTAND, ARE SELF-EXPLANATORY, BUT THE DOWNTOWN SIGNPOST. JUST LOOK AT THE DOWNTOWN SIGN CODE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO, IF ANYTHING, TO GO FROM A READER BOARD THAT'S ANTIQUATED TO MORE OF A YES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT. YES, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT. NOW I KNOW. SO YOU WANT TO MODIFY THE DOWNTOWN SITE CODE. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND WE'RE ALREADY WORKING ON THESE FOR YOU. YOU ALREADY ARE WORKING ON THAT. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE A DATE CERTAIN FOR THAT YET? NO WE DON'T. I JUST ASSUMED THE STAFF TO IT TILL I CAN TALK AGAIN. OKAY? I DON'T HAVE ANY. KERRY, DO YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR. I MEAN, ARE YOU READY TO MOVE ON THAT CHANGE OF SIGN AS SOON AS THE SIGN CODE IS UPDATED, LIKE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT? AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT YET. SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT AS FAR AS A BOARD AND IDENTIFY WHAT WHAT WE WANT.

[00:50:05]

WE JUST. THE. IF WE COULD JUST GET A CALENDAR, I THINK IT WILL END UP GETTING, JUST GETTING, MAKING IT, GET IT ON THE SCHEDULE, GETTING IT ON THE SCHEDULE. YEAH. OKAY. SO THAT WOULD BE GREAT. WE CAN GET THAT WORKED AND THEN YOU CAN. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHETHER WHICH WHICH DIRECTION TO GO. I'D HATE IT TO NOT BE ACCURATE AS SOON AS WE MOVE IT FORWARD. SO. AND YOU WOULDN'T MIND JUST WORKING THROUGH THAT. AND MAYOR WE HAVE A STANDING MEETING ONCE A MONTH.

SO WE'RE SLOWLY KIND OF WORKING THROUGH THOSE. AND WE CAN ADD THAT TO THE LIST AND SORT OF SCHEDULE THAT TIME IF YOU WOULD LIKE. PERFECT, PERFECT. THANK YOU. OKAY. LET'S SEE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT. OUR NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ACTUALLY COMING UP A LITTLE BIT FROM HR

[Police, Human Resources]

OKAY. WE COUNCIL MEMBERS, I KNOW MORE DETAILS ABOUT THIS. I BRIEFED MY COUNCIL LIAISONS.

MORE DETAIL. OKAY. BECAUSE IT'S IT IS PERSONAL MEDICAL INFORMATION. WE DON'T WRITE A LOT ABOUT IT. YEAH. SO I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THIS WITH THIS REQUEST. AND YOU CAN EITHER WE CAN EITHER HAVE IT AS A MEMO ON THURSDAY, OR WE COULD JUST DO IT HERE AS TAKE OTHER ACTION AS APPROPRIATE IF WE NEEDED TO DO IT SO THAT THERE WASN'T A DAY OR SO THAT WENT WITHOUT. DON'T MAKE THEM WAIT FOUR DAYS ON THREE DAYS. YES. NOW LET'S JUST TAKE CARE OF IT. YEAH, LET'S DO IT. WE'VE NEVER DONE THIS, HAVE WE? I SO RECALL, DONE THIS, APPROVE THIS KIND OF THING AT COUNCIL, WORK SESSION, COUNCIL OR AN EMPLOYEE AT ALL. YEAH, WE DID KNOW FOR THE PD FOR ANOTHER KEY OFFICER. I KNOW. SO THIS IS THE SECOND ONE I'VE DONE. HOW DID SO HOW DO WE HOW DID WE.

WELL, YOU'VE DONE ALL TWO. SO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE. I MEAN ARE YOU CONCERNED. I SEE THESE EMAILS EVERY WEEK. WE HAVE PEOPLE REQUESTING THIS. IS THERE A FAIRNESS AND EQUITY ISSUE? OH, REQUESTING TIME OFF WITHOUT PAY. OH, OKAY. YEAH. NO PAY. JUST SO THAT JUST SO TAKE MORE THAN THE 15 DAYS WITHOUT PAY. YEAH, YEAH. I MOVED TO APPROVE THIS EMPLOYEE LEAVE WITHOUT PAY FOR THIS EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER THROUGH MAY 16TH AND MAINTAIN THEIR BENEFITS AND ELIGIBILITY OR BENEFITS ELIGIBILITY AND CONTINUOUS SERVICE PERIOD. SECOND, DONE. COUNCIL MEMBER LEE SECONDED THAT. OKAY. NOW, COUNCILOR FRANCIS A FREEMAN. YES. DINGMAN. YES. LARSEN. YES. BRADFORD. ALL RIGHT. YES. MOTION CARRIES.

[Police, Legal]

[00:55:01]

DISPATCHERS REALLY DIDN'T LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT TOOK AWAY THEIR DISCRETION. THEY REALLY WANTED TO ASK, DOES THE GUY HAVE A GUN UP FRONT AND DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT TILL FLIPKART FIVE TO ASK THAT? OR IS THE PERSON BREATHING OR WAIT TILL FLIPKART VIBE ASKED THAT. SO WE HAVE THAT METHOD THEN. THEN IT WENT TO MORE OF A DISPATCHER CENTRIC WHERE THEY HAD MORE DISCRETION OVER IT. AND WE'VE CHANGED THIS IN MY CAREER PROBABLY AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES HERE AT IFP SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. WE'VE GONE THROUGH TWO EVOLUTIONS AT LEAST, OF HOW HOW THE HELP WE GIVE TO DISPATCHERS. SO THIS IS JUST THE EVOLUTION OF THAT PROCESS. THE REASON IT'S COMING TO YOU IS BECAUSE BONNEVILLE COUNTY WILL BE ENTERING A CONTRACT WITH AURELIAN, WHO IS THE SAME COMPANY THAT WE CONTRACT WITH FOR IRONI. IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH AI, ANY. SO WHAT THIS NEW SYSTEM WILL DO IS IT IS AN AI. IT WILL NOT TAKE OVER THE 911 SYSTEM. IT WON'T TAKE OVER THE CALL TAKER FROM NINE OVER 11. IT WILL WORK IN THE BACKGROUND. SO THE DISPATCHER. WHEN YOU CALL 911, THE DISPATCHER WILL ANSWER. THE PHONE WILL SAY 911. WHAT IS YOUR EMERGENCY? EXACTLY THE WAY IT WORKS. NOW THE DISPATCHER IS IN CONTROL AS THE DISPATCHER IS TAKING THIS 911 CALL, THE AURELIAN AI WILL BE LISTENING IN THE BACKGROUND AND SENDING SUGGESTIONS OR PROMPTS TO THE DISPATCHER IF IT THINKS THE DISPATCHER COULD COULD ASK A QUESTION OR MISS SOMETHING, BUT THE DISPATCHER IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL. IT'S NOT DIRECTING THE DISPATCHER, JUST GIVING HELPS AND PROMISES THE BASIC IDEA BEHIND IT BECAUSE BECAUSE THIS IS A JOINT DISPATCH CENTER FOR ALL OF MONROE COUNTY. AS YOU KNOW, BONNEVILLE COUNTY THROUGH THE E-911 SURCHARGE ON PHONES PAYS FOR ALL OF THE EQUIPMENT, GEAR, AND SOFTWARE THAT GETS USED.

AND SO THIS WILL BE A CONTRACT IN ADDITION TO THE CONTRACT BETWEEN BONNEVILLE COUNTY AND THIS COMPANY, TO ADD THIS PARTICULAR AI FUNCTION TO THE CONTRACT THEY ALREADY HAVE, WHICH IS AI. I BELIEVE THE REASON THIS IS COMING BEFORE YOU IS BONNEVILLE COUNTY WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY OF IDAHO FALLS IS AWARE THAT THEY'RE GETTING IT. AND THAT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WE ASKED FOR. WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THERE'S A MULTI-AGENCY BOARD MAP WHICH HAS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, FIRE DISTRICT, YUKON, ALL ALL THE AGENCIES THAT HAVE A PART OF THE DISPATCH CENTER HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE THERE. IT WAS TALKED ABOUT AT THE MULTI-AGENCY BOARD AND BROUGHT UP THEIR MULTI-AGENCY BOARD. WANTED TO IMPLEMENT IT.

BONNEVILLE COUNTY HAS BEEN VERY GRACIOUS TO DO IT. IT WILL BE OUR EMPLOYEES THAT ACTUALLY FUNCTION AT IT, AND THIS IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE GETTING IT. AND IF THERE'S MORE DETAIL THAT I'LL DEFER TO CITY ATTORNEY MR. JONES. I GOT TOO MANY. SO THE WHOLE REASON THIS CAME UP IS THE COUNTY'S ONE OF THEIR CIVIL ATTORNEYS REACHED OUT TO ME. HE WAS JUST CONCERNED BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN WE HAVE NEW TECHNOLOGIES, ATTORNEYS GET REALLY NERVOUS. SO SO HE JUST HAD REQUESTED THAT WE HAVE SOME SORT OF DOCUMENT SAYING THAT THE CITY HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THE OR THE THAT WE'RE ENTERING INTO THIS AMENDMENT TO THE AGREEMENT OR THAT THE COUNTY WILL BE ENTERING INTO THE AMENDMENT TO THE AGREEMENT. THESE ITS BENEFITS TO THE CITY. SO THAT'S THAT'S I CAN DISCUSS IN MORE DETAIL IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT THAT'S BASICALLY THE GIST OF IT. THE CITY, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS ABOUT IT. AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR THAT THE CITY IS IN AGREEMENT WITH MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY FROM THE FROM THE DISPATCH POINT OF VIEW, THIS IS A GOOD HELP. WE WANT IT. WE WERE PART OF WHAT ASKED FOR IT.

THERE IS NO COST TO THE CITY TO PAY FOR IT THROUGH THE E911 MONEY OUT OF THE TAX.

BONNEVILLE COUNTY COLLECTS. YEAH, I'D BE SUPER INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT FUNCTION. MAYBE A VIDEO OR SOMETHING THAT COULD SHOW US BECAUSE IN THEORY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GOOD. SOUNDS LIKE ALMOST IN THE MANUFACTURING WAY THEY'RE DOING THE ROBOT ASSISTED ARM OR HUMAN STILL DOING ALL THE WORK. BUT THERE'S SOME IT'S KIND OF HELPING PEOPLE MAKE THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, HAVE GOOD THINGS. AND I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. BUT BUT IN FUNCTIONALITY OF THE SOFTWARE, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON. AND THEN WHO OWNS THE.

LIABILITY? IF THERE'S A MISTAKE, IT STILL. OUR HUMAN. IS THERE ANY SHARED LIABILITY IF WE USE THEIR PROMPTS. UNLESS YOU'VE HEARD SOMETHING, THE. THE PRODUCT ITSELF WILL BE OWNED BY

[01:00:02]

THE DISPATCHER HAS CONTROL OF WHAT OCCURS. THIS IS JUST SENDING PROMPTS AND SUGGESTIONS.

WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IT IS LIKELY TO DO. AND IT'S BEEN SHOWN TO DO AS IT IS GOING TO INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE DISPATCHER. IT WILL DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF TIME FROM WHEN THE CALL COMES IN TO WHEN WE'RE ABLE TO DISPATCH UNITS IN THE FIELD. SO IF YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, IT I THINK IT SHOULD HELP STRESS A LITTLE TOO WOULD REDUCE. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE REDUNDANCY IN THE SYSTEM. JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT RISK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IF, IF, IF THE COMPUTER IS ASKING ALL THE QUESTIONS, IT'S GIVING ALL THE PROMPTS, RIGHT? SO ARE THE ARE THE DISPATCHERS MORE LIKELY TO TO NOT IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THOSE PROMPTS, NOT TO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. I, I THINK OUR DISPATCHERS DO A PHENOMENAL JOB. I DON'T KNOW THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED 911, I SIT OUT THERE AND SIT UP THERE AND LISTEN TO THEM. THEY DO REALLY, REALLY GOOD.

SOMETHING THAT IS TRUE ABOUT NOT JUST OUR DISPATCH CENTER, BUT MOST DISPATCH CENTERS. YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH TURNOVER RATE IN THE DISPATCH CENTER. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF DISPATCHERS.

WE'RE CONSTANTLY TRAINING. WE HAVE FIVE TRAINING RIGHT NOW. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THIS AI REALLY HELPS WITH IS WITH, AS YOU'RE TEACHING NEW DISPATCHERS AND WHEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE LEARNING THEIR CRAFT, I CAN'T, WE HAVE TO, THEY GRADUATE OUT OF THE TRAINING PROGRAM. THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN, RIGHT. SO WE CAN'T HAVE THE TRAINING DISPATCHER CONTINUE TO LISTEN AND MONITOR AND STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT THE AI WILL WORK IN THE BACKGROUND AND GIVE THEM SOME HELPS AS THEY GROW AS A DISPATCHER. SO THE WAY, THE WAY IT NORMALLY WORKS IS, IS THE LESS EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE, THE MORE YOU'RE GOING TO NOT RELY ON, BUT, BUT USE THE PROMPTS BECAUSE YOU'RE LEARNING YOUR CRAFT STILL. AND THAT'S THE SAME WITH ANY INDUSTRY YOU'RE IN. IT TAKES YOU A WHILE TO, TO REALLY. BECOME A SEASONED PRACTITIONER, RIGHT? THE MORE SEASONED DISPATCHERS ARE GOING TO USE IT LESS AND LESS AND LESS AS THEY'VE BEEN AROUND.

THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY TYPICAL BECAUSE WE HAVE A HIGH TURNOVER RATE, BECAUSE WE HAVE NEW DISPATCHERS ALL THE TIME. AND THEY'RE THIS IS A VERY HELPFUL PRODUCT TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING THE BEST SERVICE WE CAN APPLY TO PEOPLE WITH MEDICAL AND POLICE EMERGENCIES.

OKAY. AND AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS THE RISK IN THE ORDER 81, THAT'S AMENDING THE MASTER SERVICES AGREEMENT, BASICALLY IT SAYS, LET'S SEE, THE AI IS USED SOLELY TO ASSIST IN PROVIDING SERVICES AND IS NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE HUMAN JUDGMENT OR DECISION MAKING BY CUSTOMERS. PERSONNEL. CUSTOMER IS BONNEVILLE COUNTY, BUT WE AS. UNDER THAT CONTRACT, THOUGH IT ALLOWS THE BONNEVILLE COUNTY TO GIVE IT TO USERS AUTHORIZED USERS, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE US CUSTOMERS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVALUATING AND VERIFYING THE ACCURACY OF AI GENERATED OUTPUTS, RECOMMENDATIONS, OR INSIGHTS THROUGH HUMAN REVIEW BEFORE TAKING ANY ACTION BASED ON SUCH OUTPUTS AND AS EXPRESSED. DISCLAIMER AURELIEM DISCLAIMS ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR DECISIONS OR ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE CUSTOMER BASED ON AI GENERATED OUTPUTS AND CUSTOMERS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL DECISIONS AND ACTIONS. SO THESE. I HAD THE DISCUSSION WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY. IT'S A LITTLE BIT TRICKY, BUT UNDER IDAHO LAW, YOU CAN'T. IT'S AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTION UNLESS YOU GET APPROVAL FROM THE CITIZENS, YOU CAN'T AGREE. THE CITY CAN'T AGREE TO INDEMNIFY ANYBODY. AND IT GOES THE SAME FOR THE COUNTY. SO IT'S SO WE CAN'T HAVE AGREEMENTS SAYING, HEY, COUNTY, YOU TAKE ALL THE LIABILITY OR BAY CITY, YOU TAKE ALL THE LIABILITY, IT'S JUST GOING TO LAY WHERE IT LAYS. SO IF, HEAVEN FORBID, SOMETHING GOES WRONG, WE WILL JUST DEAL WITH THE LIABILITY WHEN THAT HAPPENS AND, AND JUST HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH THIS LANGUAGE. I WOULD JUST WHAT'S THE EXPIRATION FOR THE CONTRACT? JUST AS THIS IS NEW TECHNOLOGY, I THINK WE'LL LEARN NOT TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY AS WE, AS I, AS I EXPLAINED, THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROCESS AND DISPATCH. WE REGULARLY CHANGE HOW WE DO IT.

TYPICALLY, I DON'T BRING THIS TO CITY COUNCIL AS PART OF WHAT WE DO AS PART OF OUR PROFESSIONAL BEST STANDARDS. THE REASON IS IT'S COMING TO THE COUNCIL IS SIMPLY BECAUSE THE COUNTY WAS WORRIED ABOUT IT. THE AI WANTED THE PEOPLE TO KNOW. SO I BELIEVE THIS WILL COME TO YOU THURSDAY NIGHT ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT, THE APPROVAL OF

[01:05:03]

FIRE. I MEAN USE THIS DISPATCH AND THAT SEEMS GOOD TO ME. BUT FIRE ALSO HAS A VOTING MEMBER ON THE MAP BOARD. THE PRODUCT BOARD? YEAH. TO ANSWER YOUR TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IT'S A THREE YEAR TERM AT THE START OF JULY 21ST OF LAST YEAR, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE MASTER SERVICE.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAD. BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OF ONE YEAR PER UNLESS THERE'S SOME DISTURBANCE. THAT'S PROBABLY GOOD. DID I, DID I CATCH YOU SAY THAT THE DISPATCHERS WERE BEHIND THIS, THAT THEY THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA. I LIKE IT SO. SO WHAT DISPATCHERS DON'T WANT IS THEY DON'T WANT TO BE MICROMANAGED. AND HOW THEY HANDLE IT, THEY THEY AND AND I BELIEVE THIS ALL MY HEART. THEY THERE'S AN ART OF THE HUMAN BEING IS FAR SUPERIOR THAN ANY. ANYTHING THAT ANY SORT OF MACHINE CAN TAKE OVER. YOU KNOW, THAT THAT HUMAN INTUITION, THAT HUMAN JUDGMENT. AND WE HAVE JUST PHENOMENAL DISPATCHERS THAT DO A GREAT JOB, RIGHT? SO THEY WOULD VERY MUCH NOT WANT SOMETHING THAT'S OVERRIDING THEIR DISCRETION AND TAKING OVER FOR THEM. THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS DOES. WHAT THIS DOES WORKS IN THE BACKGROUND AND SEND THEM PROMPTS. AND LIKE A POLICE OFFICER, LIKE IF I MISS SOMETHING THAT WAS SAID AND I CAN GET A PROMPT, SAY, HEY, I MISSED THIS AND I CAN GO BACK AND CORRECT IT. THAT'S A REALLY GREAT THING. SO IT'S NOT TAKING OVER FOR THE DISPATCHER. IT'S NOT TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO. IT'S THERE TO ASSIST THEM. THEY CAN IGNORE IT COMPLETELY OR, OR USE THE PROMPTS. THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT. SOUNDS GREAT. OKAY, THAT WILL BE THERE ON THURSDAY. THEN LET'S GET THAT MEMO TO MAKE SURE IT'S. I'LL SEND IT OVER TO THE COUNTY ACKNOWLEDGMENT, BUT I MEAN, NOT AGREEMENT ON THURSDAY NIGHT, BUT IT IS JUST AN

[Police]

AND YOU'VE GOT THREE ITEMS TODAY. ALL RIGHT. SO THE LAST ONE IS JUST A CONVERSATION ABOUT LICENSE PLATE READERS. I THINK IT GOT PUT IN AS A FLOCK SAFETY, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE GENERAL ABOUT LICENSE PLATE READERS. SO AND TALKING ABOUT LICENSE PLATE READERS, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW POLICE DO POLICING AND HOW IT'S EVOLVED OVER TIME. SO WHEN I WAS A YOUNGER POLICE OFFICER, I'M A LITTLE BIT OF AN OLDER POLICE OFFICER WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, POLICE OFFICER. THE WAY WE TRAIN IS IF YOU HAD A CRIME THAT OCCURRED AND IT OCCURRED OVER HERE, THE ONE THING WE KNEW WAS THAT THE BAD GUY WASN'T GOING TO BE THERE ANYMORE. EVERY NOW AND AGAIN, THE BAD GUYS STICK AROUND AND WOULD STILL BE THERE WHEN WE GOT THERE. BUT THAT WAS WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS. USUALLY AFTER THEY COMMIT SOME CRIME, THEY WOULD LEAVE AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, RIGHT? THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY. PROBABLY WHEN YOUR KIDS ARE PLAYING COPS AND ROBBERS AND WHEN YOU PLAY COPS AND ROBBERS, THE ROBBERS JUST HANG OUT THERE. YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY GO FIND THE ROBBERS. RIGHT? AND SO WHAT WE TRAIN PEOPLE TO DO IS, YES, WE HAVE TO SEND SOMEONE TO THE SCENE, BUT WE DON'T WANT EVERYONE TO GO TO THE SCENE. IT'S KIND OF LIKE SOCCER. AND I THINK A COUPLE YOU UNDERSTAND SOCCER WHEN YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE TEACHING YOUNG KIDS HOW TO PLAY SOCCER, YOU DON'T WANT THEM ALL TO GO TO THE BALL BECAUSE OF ALL THE KIDS GO TO THE BALL. I THINK YOU'RE A SOCCER COACH.

AND I THINK I'LL GET MY SOCCER ANALOGY CORRECTLY. MY MOM, EVERYBODY GOES TO THE BALL.

THAT'S A REALLY BAD WAY TO PLAY. YOU WANT TO SPREAD THE FIELD, PUT PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE TRAINED OFFICERS TO DO. WE WOULD TEACH OFFICERS TO GO TO INTERSECTIONS, GO TO THE MAJOR INTERSECTIONS, AND WE WOULD ACTIVELY GO TO THE MAJOR INTERSECTIONS. JUST WATCHING THE CARS THAT CAME THROUGH THE INTERSECTIONS. WHEN WE WRITE DOWN LICENSE PLATES AND WRITE DOWN THE CARS GOING THROUGH THE INTERSECTION. SO WE KNEW WHO WAS TRAPPED AT THE TIME THE CRIME OCCURRED, RIGHT? WE WERE WE WERE DOING WHAT THE CAMERAS TODAY ARE DOING JUST TO REALLY INEFFECTIVE BECAUSE THE HUMAN BEING HAD TO DO IT. AND WE COULDN'T DO IT ALL THE TIME.

AS TECHNOLOGY GREW, WE GOT CAMERAS INSIDE OF OUR CARS. AND SO THEN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS IT MADE US A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFICIENT. WE WOULD DRIVE AN INTERSECTION, WE WOULD RECORD ALL THE CARS THAT CAME THROUGH, AND WE WOULD GET VIDEO OF THEM AND PICTURES OF THE LICENSE PLATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IF WE HAD MISSING KIDS, WE WOULD DRIVE NEIGHBORHOODS AND RECORD ALL THE CARS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEIR LICENSE PLATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THOSE, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE, ARE THE CAR'S LICENSE PLATES ARE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY. POLICE

[01:10:02]

THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE LOOKED AT. ONE WAS COST. THE COST IS NOT HIGH ENOUGH OR IT GOES TO A FORMAL BIDDING PROCESS. OUR PRICE IS ALWAYS A MAJOR FACTOR, AND FLOCK WATCHES A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE THAN THAN THE COMPETITORS. THE OTHER THING WE WERE LOOKING AT IS INTERAGENCY COOPERATION. THE TREASURER BATHTUB. SORRY. YEAH. THE TREASURE VALLEY HAD ALREADY STARTED IMPLEMENTING LICENSE PLATE READERS A YEAR OR TWO BEFORE WE DID. AND THE AGENCY IS THERE. A LOT OF THEM HAD GONE WITH FLOCK SAFETY. TWIN FALLS HAD JUST SIGNED THEIR CONTRACT, AND WE WERE LOOKING AT THEM DATA ON THE FLOCK. WE TALKED TO POCATELLO, SO WE ALL TALKED. WE WERE ALL, YOU KNOW, IF IT WASN'T NECESSARILY A MANDATE, BUT WE WANTED TO MOVE IN THE SAME DIRECTION SO THAT WE COULD COOPERATE WITH EACH OTHER REGIONALLY. SO TWIN FALLS ENDED UP GOING WITH FLOCK, POCATELLO WENT WITH FLOCK. AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF IDAHO, OGDEN, MOST OF THE NORTHERN UTAH ALSO OWNS THIS. SO REGIONALLY THERE WAS A LOT OF FLOCK SAFETY. SO THAT WAS IN ADDITION TO PRICE. THAT WAS ANOTHER REASON. AND THE THIRD REASON WAS CUSTOMER SERVICE. I DON'T WANT TO WE'RE ON A LIVE FEED HERE. I DON'T WANT TO DISPARAGE MOTOROLA, WHICH IS A GREAT BIG COMPANY, BUT WE WENT AWAY FROM MOTOROLA BODY CAMERAS A FEW YEARS AGO BECAUSE THE CUSTOMER SERVICE, WE JUST COULDN'T BEAR BIG COMPANY. AND WE WERE A VERY SMALL PLAYER IN THIS BIG WORLD, AND WE JUST COULDN'T GET WHAT WE NEEDED FROM THEM AND HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE. SO FLOCK WON ON COST. FLOCK WON ON.

[01:15:01]

OUR EXPERT MIGHT BE BIGGER THAN THAT. SO POCATELLO HAS 32 CAMERAS AND WE HAVE 13. TWIN FALLS IS UP IN THE 30S ALSO. SO WE'RE A LATE ADOPTER AND WE'VE GOT ABOUT A THIRD THE NUMBER OF CAMERAS THAT WE WOULD EVENTUALLY WANT TO GET, BUT WE BOUGHT THEM OFF OF A JAG GRANT IN 2025. IT WAS PUT IN THE REGULAR ISP BUDGET. THERE WAS A SPECIFIC LINE FOR THE THE CAMERAS, AND IT WAS $40,000 OF CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THROUGH THE REGULAR BUDGETING PROCESS THAT WENT TO 2025. AND IN THE BUDGET, YOU'LL SEE THAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW. AGAIN, THERE'LL BE ANOTHER LINE FOR THE FOR THE SAME THING FOR THOSE THOSE SAME 13 CAMERAS IN 2025. WE DID ALSO BUY A CAMERA TRAILER. THE CAMERA TRAILER IS NOT A LICENSE PLATE READER. IT IS JUST A CAMERA SYSTEM. WHEN WE BOUGHT IT FROM PHLOX, A LITTLE SHOWS A FLOCK CAMERA ON OUR INVENTORY, BUT IT IS NOT A LICENSE PLATE READER. WE HAVE A LOT OF PROTESTS AND WE'RE GETTING MORE AND MORE. WE ALSO HAVE THIS BIG EVENT ON THE 4TH OF JULY. SO WE LOOKED AT THE FEASIBILITY ABOUT PUTTING SOME CAMERAS UP AROUND BROADWAY BRIDGE SO THAT WE COULD NOT MONITOR PROTESTERS. BUT A LOT OF THINGS HAPPEN AROUND THE PROTESTS. PEOPLE TRY TO RUN PEOPLE OVER AND THEY THROW TOMATOES AT THEM. THERE'S WEAPONS, THERE'S THERE'S DISPUTES, THERE'S FIGHTS. THOSE THINGS HAPPEN. AND IT WAS REALLY COST PROHIBITIVE TO PUT FIXED CAMERAS UP AROUND BROADWAY BRIDGE. SO THIS TRAILER WAS A MORE COST EFFECTIVE WAY OF DOING IT. AND WE CAN MOVE IT IF WE NEED TO, AND IT CAN HELP OUT THE 4TH OF JULY AS WELL. SO IT'S JUST CAMERAS. IT DOES VIDEO, IT'S NOT A LICENSE PLATE READER. SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE WITH FLOCK. NOW, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT COME IN OFTEN ABOUT FLOCK, ONE OF THEM HAS TO DO WITH DATA SECURITY. AND I'M GOING TO DISCLOSE RIGHT NOW, I AM NOT THE EXPERT ON CYBERSECURITY. I KNOW IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT'S NOT MY EXPERTISE. SO I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST HERE. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET TECHNICAL, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASK TO BRING SOMEONE ELSE IN TO TALK AND TALK ABOUT THAT. WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY DATA, FEDERAL LAW, THE THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE INFORMATION SYSTEM IS FEDERAL LAW. SEE, JUST YOU HAVE TO BE C COMPLIANT. IF YOU EVER TALKED TO IDAHO FALLS, IT PEOPLE, THEY WILL TALK ABOUT BEING C JUST COMPLIANT ALL THE TIME. THERE SEEMS LIKE TWO PARTIES FOR AUTHENTICATION.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THE WHOLE CITY DOES IN ORDER TO BE COMPLIANT WITH CPS, BECAUSE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT USES MOST OF THE CITY'S INFRASTRUCTURE. THERE'S A REASON WHY ISP BACKGROUNDS. EVERY IT PERSON THE CITY HIRES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE ACCESS TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM DATA WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A FULL POLICE BACKGROUND. WE DON'T BACKGROUND PARKS AND REC FOLKS. WE DON'T BACKGROUND ANYONE ELSE BUT THE IT FOLKS ISP BACKGROUND CHECKS SO THEY CAN GET INTO THE DATA SYSTEM PROCEDURES. THERE'S RULES ON WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH IT, HOW YOU CAN DO IT, AND THE SECURITY LEVEL OF IT AND THE C JUST REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL LAW, THEY APPLY TO EVERY POLICE AGENCY. THEY ALSO APPLY TO EVERY PRIVATE COMPANY THAT ENGAGES IN LAW ENFORCEMENT DATA AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TECHNOLOGY. FOR EXAMPLE, AMAZON, GOOGLE, MOTOROLA, ALL THE BIG TECH, MICROSOFT, ALL THOSE BIG TECH COMPANIES HAVE POLICE SPECIFIC LAW ENFORCEMENT SPECIFIC PRODUCTS, AND THEY ARE ALL COMPLIANT. AND SO MOTOROLA, MOTOROLA, THEY ARE ALSO THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER COMPANY THAT WORKS IN THIS AREA HAS TO BE COMPLIANT. THE WAY THEY REGULATE THAT IS THERE ARE PRIVATE COMPANIES. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS DESIGNATED A CONTRACT WITH. I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW THEY DO IT, BUT THEY CAN CERTIFY SOMEONE AS BEING SEEN AS COMPLIANT. THEY'VE GONE THROUGH WHATEVER FEDERAL RULES THERE ARE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND THESE COMPANIES GO OUT TO THE DIFFERENT OTHER COMPANIES AND THEY WILL CERTIFY THEM AS C, AS COMPLIANCE AND SAFETY, THE SAME AS ANY OTHER COMPANY THAT WORKS IN THIS AS C AS COMPLIANT. THERE IS KIND OF A WHAT YOU WOULD WHAT THEY CALL THE D FLOCK MOVEMENT, IF YOU'VE HEARD OF THAT. BUT THERE, THERE IS KIND OF A HACKTIVIST MOVEMENT AGAINST FLOC AND THEY, THEY'VE MADE SOME CLAIMS. THERE'S A

[01:20:02]

THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S A RISK SOFTWARE NO MATTER WHAT. I'M NOT HERE TO SELL PHLOX SAFETY RECORD. THAT'S THAT'S REALLY NOT MY FUNCTION. BUT THE, THE, THE UNDERLYING REALITY IS ALL THESE, ALL THESE COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE THIS SERVICE, I'LL HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENTS FROM, FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. WE SEE JUST COMPLIANT. ONE OF THE THINGS FLOC DOES DO IS THEY HIRED A TECH COMPANY THAT IS IS LIKE A LEGITIMATE HACKER THAT GOES OUT AND ACTUALLY TRIES TO HACK OTHER TECH COMPANIES. AND AGAIN, THIS IS OUTSIDE MY EXPERTISE, BUT IN THE RESEARCH I DID, THEY'RE THE BEST LEGITIMATE HACKERS IN THE BUSINESS. AND SO THEY HAVE THEM ACTIVELY TRY TO PENETRATE FLOC CONSTANTLY TO LOOK FOR VULNERABILITIES SO THAT THEY CAN, THEY CAN CORRECT THEM AND FIX THEM AS THEY COME ON. AND THE FLOC ALSO HAS KIND OF LIKE WHAT THEY CALL AN ETHICAL HACKER PROGRAM, WHERE THEY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TRY TO BREACH THEIR DATABASE AND TO LET THEM KNOW HOW IT WENT AND SHARE THE INFORMATION SO THEY CAN CONTINUOUSLY UPDATE THEIR DATABASE. WE'VE BEEN QUITE HAPPY WITH WITH THE SERVICE WE'VE GOTTEN FROM FLOC, WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY ISSUES WITH LOCK. IT WORKS THE SAME AS OUR OTHER CRIMINAL JUSTICE PARTNER COMPANIES THAT ARE OPERATING UNDER THAT SAME CSS COMPLIANCE.

SO FROM EVERYTHING I CAN SEE, FLOC IS COMPLIANT AND IS AS SAFE AS ANY OTHER SOFTWARE YOU MIGHT HAVE OUT THERE. WITH THE CAVEAT, I'M NOT THE EXPERT ON THAT, BUT THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN OUT THERE, BEEN ABLE TO FIND A COUPLE OF THINGS WITH THE LICENSE PLATE READERS IS ONE IS THE STATE LAW AND YOU'VE GOT A COPY OF THE STATE LAW. IT LIMITS WHAT WE CAN USE LICENSE PLATE READERS FOR. WE CAN USE THEM FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, MISDEMEANORS, FELONIES, CRIMES, SORRY, MISSING PERSONS, TRAFFIC FLOW, TYPE OF. QUERIES. BUT IT LIMITS A LOT OF WHAT WE CAN DO WITH IT. AND WE FOLLOW STATE LAW. STATE LAW ALSO LIMITS THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT A THE DATA IS HELD. SO IT LIMITS IT THE 30 DAYS. SO YOUR LICENSE PLATE IS CAPTURED BY A FLOCK SYSTEM AND STAYS IN THAT DATABASE FOR 30 DAYS, AND THEN IT'S PURGED OUT OF THERE.

AND THAT'S BY STATE LAW. AND THAT WOULD BE THE SAFEST POCATELLO'S TWIN FALLS, ALL THE TREASURE VALLEY FOLKS WERE ALL USING THE SAME SYSTEM, AND I GUESS OCCURS 30 DAYS PER YEAR.

IDAHO STATE LAW. ANOTHER THING THAT IS WE WILL OCCASIONALLY GET FOIA REQUESTS. SOMEONE WILL SAY, HEY, I WANT TO KNOW EVERY TIME MY CAR HIT ON A FLOCK READER. AND WE HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY RESPONSIVE DATA FOR THAT. I CANNOT TELL YOU. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THE MAYOR'S BEEN TO ALBERTSONS. I COULDN'T TELL YOU THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN TO GUNS AND GEAR. I'M NOT LOOKING AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR. WE JUST DON'T KNOW. THAT'S NOT HOW THE DATA WORKS. I CAN'T LOOK AT IT. I CAN'T SEE IT. AND TELL SOMEONE IS A SUSPECT OF A CRIME. AND WE CAN ARTICULATE SPECIFICALLY WHO THE SUSPECT IS AND WHAT THE CRIME IS THAT WOULD FIT THE STATE REQUIREMENTS. THAT'S WHEN WE CAN ACCESS THE DATA, AND THAT'S WHEN WE'D BE ABLE TO KNOW WHERE THEIR LICENSE PLATE IS HIT. SO WE WE DON'T KNOW AND

[01:25:06]

THERE WAS A SHERIFF IN IDAHO THAT USED THEIR LICENSE PLATE READER SYSTEM TO, TO KIND OF STALK HIS WIFE AND TRACK HIS WIFE. I'M NOT GOING TO GET ALL THE DETAILS OF WHAT WAS GOING ON THERE BECAUSE IT GETS A LITTLE IT'S REALLY SHADY. AND THERE WAS A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DONE BY THE I BY THE IDAHO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. THEY OPTED NOT TO PRESS CRIMINAL CHARGES. HOWEVER, THE SHERIFF RESIGNED AND IS NO LONGER THE SHERIFF ANYMORE. I'M AWARE OF A CASE IN THE SOUTH WHERE IT WAS A POLICE SEEMS TO BE THE CHIEFS AND THE SHERIFF'S DOING THIS, WHICH UPSETS ME SIGNIFICANTLY. THERE'S NO POINT. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A CHIEF DOWN SOUTH THAT WAS USING IT FOR FOR SIMILAR STUFF TO TO KIND OF STALK HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH, YOU KNOW, AS I WAS TALKING TO THE PERSON THAT RAISED THAT CONCERN, I JUST ASKED A QUESTION, WHERE IS THAT POLICE CHIEF NOW? AND THE ANSWER WAS, WELL, THEY'RE IN JAIL. THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE WITH THIS IS THEIR SYSTEMS CAN BE ABUSED AS 100% CORRECT.

WE HAVE ACCESS TO A LOT OF DATA. THERE'S RULES AROUND THAT DATA, NOT JUST THE LICENSE PLATE READERS. THE THE, THE, THE AUDIT FUNCTION OF THE LICENSE PLATE READERS WORKS. RIGHT? THAT PARTICULAR SHERIFF DIDN'T GET AWAY WITH IT. HE COULDN'T HIDE IT. IT'S YOU CAN'T HIDE IT.

YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE TO SAY, HERE'S WHO I AM AND HERE'S WHAT I'M DOING. YOU CAN'T HIDE IT.

PEOPLE GO BACK AND DO AN INVESTIGATION SO YOU CAN'T HIDE WHAT YOU DID. THE AUDIT SYSTEM WORKS. I CANNOT PROMISE YOU THE SAME AS I IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE FOR A POLICE OFFICER TO MISUSE DRIVER'S LICENSE DATA, TO ACCESS IT FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN OFFICIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PURPOSES. OVER MY CAREER, POLICE OFFICERS HAVE ACCESS DRIVER'S LICENSE DATA FOR OTHER REASONS. OKAY, IT HAPPENS OCCASIONALLY. WHEN IT HAPPENS, THERE IS AN AUDIT TRAIL AND WE TAKE DISCIPLINARY ACTION AGAINST THEM UP TO AND INCLUDING TERMINATION. SO YES, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE LIKE ME COULD ABUSE THE SYSTEM, BUT WE CAN'T HIDE IT.

IT WOULD IT WOULD BE SEEN IN A IN A AUDIT. AND THERE ARE SANCTIONS TO THAT THAT ARE PRETTY HIGH. YOU'LL LOSE YOUR JOB AND POSSIBLY GO TO JAIL. SO I THINK THAT IS A. AND THAT'S IMPORTANT, I THINK. AND THEN KIND OF WHAT I WOULD WOULD SAY WITH LICENSE PLATE READERS, YOU KNOW, I WROTE MY NOTES AND AS I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, I SAID, LICENSE PLATE READERS ARE THE BEST INNOVATION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT SINCE THE DNA. BUT I WAS TALKING TO COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS EARLIER TODAY ABOUT THIS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'VE MADE MAYBE HALF A DOZEN ARRESTS OVER WITH DNA OVER THE LAST 6 OR 7 YEARS. THERE WERE BIG CASES. THEY WERE IMPORTANT CASES. AND THIS REALLY GREAT FINGERPRINTS, A FEW. WE HAVE MADE 42 ARRESTS WITH LICENSE PLATE READERS IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS IS THE BEST INNOVATION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND THOSE ARE 42 SOMEONE THAT CAME INTO TOWN HAD A A STOCKING FOR RESTOCKING, WARN AGAINST EX SPOUSE THAT HAD THREATENED TO, TO RAPE AND KIDNAP THAT SPOUSE. WE WERE ABLE TO SEE WHEN THEY

[01:30:02]

SO ONE QUESTION I'VE HEARD IS ABOUT SHARING INFORMATION WITH OTHER AGENCIES THAT DON'T HAVE THE SAME CONTROLS, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY DOES. SO EVERYONE HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE SAME THE SAME REQUIREMENTS. SO WE, WE DO SHARE DATA BECAUSE WE GET DATA FROM OTHER AGENCIES.

IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR A BAD GUY THAT IT COULD BE A BAD GIRL. ALSO, I DON'T MEAN TO BE GENDER SPECIFIC ON WHO'S COMMITTING CRIMES. THERE'S, THERE'S ANOTHER DAY. THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE BOUNDARIES OF IDAHO FALLS. THEY LEAVE OUR CITY, THEY LEAVE OUR STATE. AND DEPENDING ON WHAT CRIME THEY'RE COMMITTING, IT'S VERY GOOD INFORMATION TO KNOW WHERE THEY'RE AT. SO WE WILL WE WILL GET DATA FROM OTHER AGENCIES REGULARLY ABOUT WHERE OUR BAD GUYS ARE GOING. AND SO THERE'S A RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO GET THAT DATA THAT'S NOT UNIQUE TO LICENSE PLATE READER DATA, THOUGH, THAT THAT GOES TO THE STATE DATABASES FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE, FOR VEHICLE REGISTRATIONS, FOR EVERY OTHER PIECE OF DATA WE SHARE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, ALL OF THEM HAVE TO BE COMPLIANT. THEY ALL ARE REQUIRED TO BE SIEGES COMPLIANT TO PROTECT THE DATA. I HAVE ONE MORE FOR YOU ABOUT. THE AGENCIES THAT DO USE THESE CAMERAS IS LIKE, DOES THE THE STATE OF IDAHO USE THEM? LIKE, LIKE IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU, IF THERE IS THERE ONE AT THE STATE LINE AT UTAH ON I-15, I MEAN, THEY'RE, YOU'RE TAKING ALL OUR TRADE SECRETS AWAY. BUT THAT'S OKAY. THAT'S PART OF IT. THERE IS A LICENSE PLATE READER ON I-15 AS YOU COME INTO IDAHO.

THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, PROBABLY OVER A DECADE. AND IT HELPED WITH CASES GOING WAY BACK WHEN. I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF IDAHO. I BELIEVE IT'S ONE OF THE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS DOWN THERE. THERE ARE THERE ARE LICENSE PLATE READERS ON I-15, ON I-84 AND I-86. THEY ARE THEY'RE POCATELLO, TWIN FALLS, IDAHO FALLS, BONNEVILLE COUNTY.

MOST OF THE HIGHWAYS AS YOU'RE CROSSING STATE LINES, AS YOU GO TO THE NEW STATE, THE OTHER THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS GOT ONE THAT LOOKS AT WHAT'S COMING IN. YES. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO I, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS GENERALLY AND THEN SOME SPECIFICS. IMPD HAS INCREASED DATA SHARING TO 404 AGENCIES. IS THAT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK IS TRUE? AND THEN DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE INFORMATION I'VE BEEN TOLD IS THAT THE NUMBER OF ICE SEARCHES HAS INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY, TO THE POINT I COULDN'T COUNT THEM? IT SOUNDS LIKE TO YOU THAT ONLINE SECURITY WASN'T REQUESTED. THEY'VE NOT REQUESTED FROM US, AND I'VE TOLD THEM SPECIFICALLY WE CAN'T USE IT FOR. I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT, BUT CAN THEY CAN I LOG IN AND USE THOSE CAMERAS BECAUSE THEY'RE PART OF A BLOCK SYSTEM? I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU ON THAT ONE. I CAN'T SPEAK TO IT. I WILL HAVE TO GO BACK AND TALK TO THEM. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING WE DON'T. I TELL YOU, WE DO NOT HAVE A RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP WITH ICE WHEN IT COMES TO WHEN IT COMES TO. SO THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO OUR DATA IF THEY DID. AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, I WAS IN BOISE RECENTLY AND THERE WAS A THERE WAS SIGNAGE FOR WHERE THE FLOCK CAMERAS WERE. THEY DON'T THEY CERTAINLY WEREN'T FROM BOISE CITY. I THINK IT WAS ACTIVISTS. YEAH. AND I THINK THEY'RE MAPPED ON THEIR WEBSITE. RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT SECRET. NO, THEY'RE NOT IN OURS ACTUALLY. BLOCK.

AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO SELL YOU ON FLOCK. THERE'S LOTS OF GOOD COMPANIES THAT DO THIS, BUT FLOCK HAS A TRANSPARENCY PAGE AND YOU CAN GO ON THAT. AND YOU CAN LOOK AT EVERY, EVERY HIT THAT WE'VE HAD ON FLOCK. ONCE IT BECOMES A PUBLIC RECORD, IT GOES UP ON THEIR TRANSPARENCY PAGE THAT YOU CAN SEE MAPS OF WHERE ALL OF OUR CAMERAS ARE, ALL THAT IS OUT THERE AND PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. SO BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU HAD 42 ARRESTS, BUT YOU ONLY KEEP THE DATA FOR 30 DAYS. SO ARE WE THAT EFFICIENT AT RESEARCHING CRIME? WE ONLY HAVE 30 DAYS TO SOLVE THE CRIME BEFORE WE GET GOING. IS THAT PLUS PEOPLE WARRANT? SO IF YOU HAVE A WARRANT FOR, SAY, RAPE OR AGGRAVATED BATTERY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEFORE THEN THEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE, WE'LL PUT THAT LICENSE PLATE AND THEN SAVE IT AND SAY, LOOK FOR IT.

[01:35:05]

YOU CITED THAT THE WEAKNESS OF ANY OF THE PENETRATION TESTING, YOU KNOW, WE DO THAT FOR THE CITY, WE DO IT FOR THE ORGANIZATION I'M IN CHARGE OF IS PENETRATION TESTING.

SECURITY IS AS GOOD AS THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PASSWORD. RIGHT. AND SO. AND LIKE YOU SAID, SOMEONE'S TAKING A HUGE RISK TO USE IT, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF THEY IT'S ALL TRACKABLE, EVERY KEYSTROKE. BUT THE CONCERN THAT I HAD HEARD FROM SOME OF THE WOMEN IS THAT IF THERE WAS AN OFFICER IN RIGBY THAT WAS A PAST PARTNER AND THEY WANTED TO SEE THEIR LICENSE PLATE EVERY DAY GO THROUGH A CERTAIN INTERSECTION, THEY COULD SEE IT. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU THINK IS IF THEY DID USE IT AND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC LICENSE BECAUSE THEY'D PROBABLY HAVE TO TYPE IN THE LICENSE, YOU HAVE TO TYPE IN THE LICENSE PLATE. YOU ALSO HAVE TO TYPE IN THE REASON WHY YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IT. SO IT CREATES A ROBUST AUDIT TRAIL. BUT ALSO ALL OF THAT I THINK MAKES SENSE. SO I THINK WHAT WE JUST THOSE THINGS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT, I THINK ARE THE THINGS THAT PUBLIC'S CONCERNED ABOUT. AND THEN I THINK WE NEED TO BE AS TRANSPARENT AS WE CAN THAT THEY'RE BEING USED. AND I THINK THIS HELPS, RIGHT? JUST HAVING IT IN PUBLIC MEETING. AND, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE LIKED TWO YEARS AGO FOR US TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED. AND I GET WHY POLICE OFFICERS AND THE SYSTEM WANTS TO WORK THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. I, I GET IT AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE DID ANYTHING THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE, BUT I DO THINK THAT THIS WAS A PRIVACY ISSUE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT THIS GOVERNMENT LEVEL BEFORE WE DID IT, I THINK. SO I DON'T ACCEPT THAT THAT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY. IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHY THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, YOU CAN LOOK RIGHT AT ME. AT THE TIME I HAD BRIEFED THE MAYOR, THE MAYOR AT THE TIME, I BRIEFED MY COUNCIL

[01:40:06]

LIKE I SAID, WE WERE IN A LATE ADOPTER. PEOPLE WERE BEING PICKED UP ON THE LICENSE PLATE, READERS ALL OVER THE PLACE BEFORE THEY GOT TIRED. SO IT WASN'T SOMETHING NEW IN MY MIND WHEN WE IMPLEMENTED IT BECAUSE WE WERE A LATE ADOPTER. BUT I WILL PUSH BACK ON ONE THING. I THINK THE BEST. NOT REALLY. I'M JUST TEASING HERE. BUT I THINK THE BIGGEST PROGRESSION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IS EVERYONE CARRYING A PHONE AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. YEAH, BECAUSE THE PRIVACY LEVEL OF THE CAMERAS AREN'T MUCH HIGHER THAN THE FACT THAT YOU'RE CARRYING THIS AROUND AND IT'S TRACKING YOUR EVERY MOVEMENT. RIGHT. AND SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE USED TO THIS INCREASED, YOU KNOW, LOSS OF PRIVACY. BUT I THINK AS LONG AS WE'RE DOING IT WITH EVERYONE'S CONSENT AND THAT PEOPLE KNOW THEY'RE A ROBUST SAFETY AND AUDITING AND CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE SYSTEM, I CANNOT PROMISE YOU THAT NO BAD ACTOR WILL EVER ABUSE THE SYSTEM, BECAUSE OVER TIME, BAD ACTORS IN EVERY SYSTEM, RIGHT? THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES WHEN SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DO THAT, INCLUDING THE LOSS OF YOUR JOB AND INCARCERATION. I JUST WANTED THAT PART OF WORK CONVERSATION? ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YES. OKAY. COUNCIL. LET'S TAKE JUST A FIVE MINUTE BREAK, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK AND HIT ON THE PARK ZONE, WHICH ACTUALLY ISN'T GOING TO BE AT IE ARE. BACK IN SESSION. AND THIS

[Community Development Services, Parks & Recreation]

CURRENTLY, OUR PARKS ARE BUILT TO COMMERCIAL STANDARDS AND THE PHASING IN TYPICAL CONSTRUCTION IS GEOGRAPHICAL. YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD THIS SECTION AND THEN MOVE TO THIS SECTION AND THEN MOVE TO THIS SECTION. IN MORE MANAGEABLE STAGES AS A WAY TO MANAGE CASH FLOW. BUT AS WE'VE SEEN, PARKS ACTUALLY GROW IN INTENSITY. YOU KNOW, IT'S FAIR LEVEL. A PARK IS PUBLIC SPACE THAT IS GRASS AND MAINTAINED BY OUR FAMOUS PARKS AND REC DIVISION. SO WE SO WE DID AS A COUNCIL TALK ABOUT CREATING SOMETHING DIFFERENT SPECIFIC FOR SPECIFIC FOR PARKS. SO DIRECTOR CENTER AND DIRECTOR HOLMES HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS WITH AS WELL AS THEIR DEPARTMENTS TO BRING THIS FORWARD TODAY. THERE ARE SOME EXTRA COMPLEXITIES WITH PARK ZONE, SO THEY'LL GO THROUGH THOSE. BUT BUT THEY ARE BRINGING SOMETHING FORWARD TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WE ARE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND THAT COUNCIL WOULD GIVE THEM THEIR BLESSING OR NOT AHEAD TO CONTINUE THIS WORK AND GET SOMETHING QUICKLY WRAPPED UP, BECAUSE WE HAVE IT SET ON DATE OF WHEN WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THIS FINISHED. SO IF WELCOME TO THE COUNCIL WORK SESSION TO OUR TWO DIRECTORS. THANK YOU MAYOR. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO INTRODUCE DJ, BUT DJ IS WITH ME AS WELL. SO YES, THANK YOU MAYOR. THAT WAS A GREAT INTRODUCTION. WE WANTED THERE'S A FEW COMPLEXITIES WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A PARK ZONE AND YOU'LL YOU'LL SEE WHAT WE'RE TAKING. I WILL ADMIT, I KNOW JIM FRANCIS HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS. WE ARE REALLY THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX ON THIS ONE, AND I'LL EXPLAIN SOME OF THIS. WE ALSO ARE VENTURING. WE'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH ON OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, AND THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT WE COULDN'T FIND WHERE IT'S BEEN DONE ANYWHERE ELSE. SOME OF THE ELEMENTS OF IT HAVE. SO WE'RE TAKING A BIT OF A HYBRID APPROACH, BUT I THINK IT'LL GET US TO SOME OF THE ISSUES, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO FLEXIBILITY FOR THE FOR THE PARK ESTABLISHMENT. SO AS YOU KNOW, OUR COUNCIL PRIORITY THAT'S GIVEN TO PARKS AND CDS IS TO ESTABLISH A PARK ZONE, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE CATEGORIES FOR PARKS, AVOID DUPLICATION OF AMENITIES SUCH AS LANDSCAPING NEXT TO PARKS, ALLOW FOR INTENSIFIED ADDITIONAL PARK

[01:45:03]

AND THE FIRST IS WE KNOW THAT WITH IMPACT FEES THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE PARK CONSTRUCTION. WHAT THAT MEANS, HOW MANY WE HAVE WILL BE DETERMINED BY THAT. BUT BUT IT ALSO IS AFFECTING THEN THE ABILITY FOR PARKS TO BE CONSTRUCTED. WE ALSO HAVE, AS AMIR TALKED ABOUT, THERE'S A NEED FOR FLEXIBILITY AS THESE PARKS DEVELOP. FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETIMES PARK PARKING LOTS ARE SURROUNDED BY TREES. SO WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE COMMERCIAL STANDARD OF AN ISLAND? A LANDSCAPE ISLAND IN A IN A PARKING LOT, RIGHT. SO THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY THAT'S NEEDED THERE AS WELL AS, AS THE MAYOR SAID, WE'RE ALSO FINDING SOME PARKS WE, WE GET AND THEY'RE COMING ONLINE, BUT THEY INTENSIFY IN USE AS WE GO THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. FOR EXAMPLE, COMMUNITY PARK IS IS MUCH MORE OF AN INTENSE USE THAN YOU WOULD SAY, FREEMAN PARK, FOR EXAMPLE. OR MAYBE FREEMAN PARK IS JUST AS HEAVILY USED, BUT THAT INTENSIFICATION TRIGGERS SOME ISSUES AS WELL. WE ALSO, IN LOOKING AT THESE, WE REALIZE THAT PARKS AS A LAND USE FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE ARE UNIQUE TO OUR URBAN FORM.

THEY'RE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING ELSE WE HAVE IN OUR CITY. WITH THAT, EACH INDIVIDUAL PARK IS DIFFERENT IN OUR PARK SYSTEM. SO KATE CURLEY PARK IS IS DIFFERENT THAN HERITAGE PARK.

WELL, ALL THESE ARE VERY DIFFERENT USES AND DIFFERENT WITHIN THE PARK SYSTEM. SO WE AS WE WERE THINKING THROUGH THIS, WE WERE THINKING, WELL, WHAT IF THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR EACH PARK REFLECTED THAT INDIVIDUALLY? AND THAT'S WHERE WE STARTED TRYING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX, BECAUSE THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT WAY OF THINKING. WELL, A LITTLE BIT. SO THE THINKING HERE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO CITY COUNCIL, IS THAT WE WOULD RELIEVE THE PARKS FROM THE COMMERCIAL STANDARDS IN OUR ZONING CODE. SO I'LL GO THROUGH THE CODE WHAT'S PROPOSED IN FRONT OF YOU. SO EACH PARK WOULD BE DESIGNED ACCORDING TO WHAT WE'RE CALLING. I'M GOING TO CALL IT A MASTER PLAN, BUT IT'D BE A PARK DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

AND WITH EACH PARK HAVING THAT DESIGNATED CATEGORY FOR IT. SO THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR PARKS THAT ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED WOULD ACTUALLY BE IMPOSED BY THIS PARK DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO EACH INDIVIDUAL PARK WOULD HAVE A DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR IT SPECIFICALLY. THEN THE PARKS AND REC DEPARTMENT WOULD BE PRIMARILY THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THOSE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. FOR EACH OF THOSE PARKS. THE PARK DEVELOPMENT PLAN WOULD STILL BE HOLDING TO STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ADA REQUIREMENTS WOULD STILL APPLY. WE ALSO HAVE LIKE IN PUBLIC WORKS, WE HAVE ENGINEERING STANDARDS THAT WOULD STILL APPLY. THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO PULL A BUILDING PERMIT, BUT THE LAYOUT AND THE LOOK AND FEEL OF EACH PARTICLE WOULD BE BEHOLDEN TO EACH PARK DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO TO GO THROUGH THE CODE THAT I THAT I GAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, WHAT WE HAVE IS FIRST WE HAD THE CURRENT BEFORE YOU GO ON. OH YES. JUST ONE THOUGHT IS JUST TO NOTE IN THE RECORD THAT IT WOULD MAKE SOME SENSE THAT IF WE DO DO INDIVIDUAL LIKE RFPS, WHERE WE WERE GOING TO PUT IN SOMETHING LIKE REXBURG RAPIDS WITH A DEVELOPER THAT MAYBE WE COULD CARVE OUT, THAT THEY WOULD STILL HAVE COMMERCIAL. SO THERE WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION IF THEY WERE DOING A 30 YEAR, IF THEY WERE FINANCING, LIKE IF THEY WERE A COMMERCIAL ENTITY WITHIN OUR PARKS, SIMILAR TO LIKE THE SLED HILL OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. JUST BECAUSE THE REASON WE NEED THIS CONCEPT IS WE CAN'T SPREAD COSTS, BUT THE DEVELOPER, BUT PRIVATE INDUSTRY MIGHT BE ABLE TO, AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS MIGHT NEED TO TAKE. OKAY. YEAH, NO, BUT SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO WAYLAY THE CONVERSATION. JUST JUST WANT TO END THERE. SURE. YEAH. NO PROBLEM. VALUE AND YEAH, NO THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER RADFORD. SO, SO FIRST OFF,

[01:50:04]

YEAH. SO THAT OUR CURRENT SETBACK STANDARD FOR THE PUBLIC ZONE REFLECTS THAT. SO IF WE'RE TO REMOVE PARKS FROM THAT, WE WOULD WANT THE SETBACK STANDARDS TO REFLECT MORE THE PUBLIC USE OF WHAT'S IN THERE. SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THAT FIRST CHANGE. SO WE WOULD BE REFLECTING THAT BECAUSE PARKS OBVIOUSLY HAVE MUCH MORE OPEN SPACE IN TERMS OF SETBACKS.

THEN WE GET INTO THE MEAT OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. SO IN 11 DASH 4-2, WE HAVE IN THE VERY BEGINNING OF OUR ZONING CODE, IT TALKS ABOUT THE APPLICABILITY. AND CURRENTLY AS IT READS, IT BASICALLY SAYS ALL LAND WITHIN THE CITY IS SUBJECT TO OUR ZONING ORDINANCE. I JUST HIGHLIGHTED RIGHT HERE AN UNDERLINE WE WOULD EXEMPT PARKS AND REC FACILITIES FROM THAT.

SO THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE CONTINGENT ON THE ZONING CODE. WHAT THEY WOULD BE DOING IS THEY WOULD BE CONTINGENT ON THEIR INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPMENT PLANS. SO THAT'S WHAT THE FIRST CHANGE IS. THE SECOND CHANGE THEN IS YOU HAVE TO WITH ANYTHING IN OUR ZONING CODE, YOU HAVE TO DEFINE. SO WE'RE SCRATCHING THE CURRENT DEFINITION OF WHAT A PARKS AND REC FACILITY. AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ THIS AND YOU'LL SEE TWO ADDITIONS AT THE BOTTOM BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THEN WITH PARKS AND REC AND WITH THE MAYOR. SO WE WOULD DEFINE A PARKS AND REC FACILITY AS THE USE OF A SITE WHICH HAS BEEN DEDICATED, DESIGNED FOR OR USED FOR OUTDOOR RECREATION ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, CITY PARKS, PLAYGROUNDS, OPEN SPACE AND NATURAL AREAS, TRAILS AND PATHWAY SYSTEMS, SPORTS FIELDS AND COURTS, PICNIC SHELTERS AND PAVILIONS, ZOOS, EVENT VENUES, AMPHITHEATER, RV PARKS, CEMETERIES, AGRICULTURAL TOURISM AND ACCESSORY RESTROOMS, PARK STRUCTURES, CONCESSIONS, FENCING, BACKSTOPS, EQUIPMENT SHEDS, SCOREKEEPERS BOOTHS, SPLASH PADS AND SWIMMING POOLS. PUBLIC ART AND COMMUNITY GARDEN OR FARM, PARK AND RECREATIONAL FACILITY. ALSO INCLUDES PRIVATE CHURCH OR NEIGHBORHOOD OWNED PARKS AND PLAYGROUNDS AND THE LIKE, BUT NOT INCLUDING COMMERCIAL RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES. WE TRIED TO CAPTURE EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD, BUT WITH THAT DISCUSSION, THERE WAS A THOUGHT, WELL, WE COULD REMOVE AGRICULTURAL TOURISM BECAUSE THAT'S INCLUDED IN ONE OF OUR INDUSTRIAL ZONES. AND ALSO WE DID NOT ADD A GOLF FACILITIES THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THERE. SO WE WOULD ENCOMPASS THAT AS THAT WOULD BE WHAT COULD INCORPORATE INTO A PARK SYSTEM. ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT AS, AS THIS IS A GOOD KIND OF PAUSE POINT FOR A MOMENT. OKAY, I'LL CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD THEN. SO ALSO ALONG WITH THIS, WE'D HAVE TO WRITE IN SOMETHING IN OUR CODE REGARDING A PROCESS FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THESE PARK DEVELOPMENT PLANS. SO I WANTED TO GO THROUGH THAT, AND WE BASICALLY TREAT IT LIKE WE WOULD ANY TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT PROCESS WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A TWEAK. I AM PJ AND I ARE VERY DIRECTOR HOME AND I ARE VERY OPEN TO THIS, MAYBE BEING MODIFIED A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO CODIFY IT SOMEHOW IN OUR CODE. SO FIRST IS WE WOULD TREAT IT LIKE WE WOULD ANY TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WOULD IF A NEW PARK WERE TO COME IN AND WE'LL USE MEPPEN JUST BECAUSE THAT ONE'S THAT'S KIND OF MOVING THROUGH THE PROCESS. MEPPEN PARK IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE WOULD NOTICE TO THE NEIGHBORS, THERE'S A 300 FOOT REQUIREMENT FOR THIS THAT COMES FROM STATE STATUTES. SO BE AWARE OF THAT. THAT'S WHY THAT NUMBER IS IN THERE. BUT WE WOULD NOTIFY FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT. THEN WE WOULD HAVE REVIEW AND INPUT FROM THE PARKS AND REC COMMISSION, AND THEY WOULD FORM A STEERING COMMITTEE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THAT PARK. HOW IT LOOKS, HOW IT FEELS, HOW IT LAYS OUT. AND THEY WOULD HELP DEVELOP THAT MASTER PLAN. WOULD THAT MASTER PLAN. ONE THING WE DON'T KNOW IS WOULD THAT MASTER PLAN BE CONSULTED ON. WOULD IT BE INTERNAL STAFF? WE DON'T HAVE A VERY WE DON'T QUITE KNOW YET ON THAT. BUT NONETHELESS, WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO IS EMPOWER THE PARKS AND REC COMMISSION A LITTLE BIT FOR SIGNIFICANT INPUT ON HOW THESE PARKS ARE DEVELOPED. THEN AFTER THAT'S BEEN DRAFTED, THEN IT WOULD GO FOR APPROVAL BY CITY COUNCIL. SO CITY COUNCIL WOULD HAVE THE

[01:55:05]

SO, YEAH. BUT YEAH, THERE WAS SOMETHING MISSED. IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE THAT. THAT JUST MAKES SOME SENSE BECAUSE THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE'RE GETTING YOUR MONEY TO DO THINGS. RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, MOST OF THIS IS GOING TO BE LAID OUT WITH OUR CAPITAL PLAN. AND THAT GIVES THIS NEW PARK DEVELOPMENT, GIVES ONE LAST OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF SEE, OKAY, HERE ARE THE THINGS THAT WERE LISTED IN THAT CAPITAL PLAN. HERE'S HOW WE'RE IMPLEMENTING THEM INTO THE SITE. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? YOU KNOW, SO FAR IT'S BEEN THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. WE'VE HAD A STEERING COMMITTEE HELPED DRIVE THAT. WE'VE HAD AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT MAYBE HELP US WITH THE WITH THE PLAN. HOW DO YOU FEEL MOVING FORWARD WITH X, Y, AND Z? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? PJ ON THE FORMATION OF THE STEERING COMMITTEE FOR EACH PARK? HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU WHAT DO YOU ENVISION? SO.

AND ACTUALLY, THIS WOULD BE ONE THING THAT I WOULD SAY PROBABLY INSTEAD OF A BULLET UNDER REVIEW AND INPUT BY THE PARKS AND REC COMMISSION WOULD BE FLIPPED ABOVE IT, JUST LIKE WE DID WITH THE HERITAGE PARK PLAN. WE HAD PEOPLE THAT HAD BUY IN, RIGHT? SO THAT WAS MADE UP OF DEVELOPERS AND LANDOWNERS AND THOSE AROUND. LET'S DO THAT AS WELL AS MAYBE SOME FOLKS THAT HAVE SOME CONTRIBUTING USE OF THE FACILITY ON HOW THAT LOOKS, HOW THE LAYOUT WAS, HOW MANY X, Y, AND Z DO WE NEED? YEAH. AND THEN MAYBE TAKE THAT TO THE COMMISSION FOR KIND OF A THUMBS UP BEFORE IT'S BROUGHT TO YOU. SO HOW, HOW YOU SPOKE ABOUT A MASTER PLAN FOR DEVELOPING A NEW PARK, RIGHT? NOT NOT MODIFYING SOMETHING WITHIN AN EXISTING PARK, AM I RIGHT? THAT IS, THAT IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS HOW, HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH PARKS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD. BUT FOR OFFICE, BUT IT STILL WORKS, RIGHT? ARE YOU SEEING NOT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE PUTTING MOST OF OUR MONEY INTO EXISTING, WAS THAT IT WAS FOR ALL OF THE PARKS AS WE GET READY TO TO MAKE OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, IT'S ALMOST ALL EXISTING PARKS AND REALIZE SOME OF THESE PARKS ARE ASKING WHAT THIS APPLIES TO. YEAH. SO IT DOES APPLY TO THE EXISTING PARKS AS WE GO FORWARD, AS WE MAKE NEW DEVELOPMENTS HAPPEN INSIDE THOSE PARKS, I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RELOOK AT THOSE PARK PLANS. SOME OF THEM ARE ROBUST AND SOME OF THEM ARE PRETTY BARE BONES. SO BUT STEERING COMMITTEES ARE THOSE ONLY DURING THE INITIAL CONSTRUCTION DESIGN PHASE OR DO THEY? I THINK YOU COULD DO EITHER FOR THE PARK. SO IT PROBABLY COULD HAVE A PERMANENT STEERING COMMITTEE BECAUSE YOU'RE ALMOST ALWAYS GOING TO BE JUST CAN'T IMAGINE. BUT HERITAGE, ONCE YOU'RE DONE, THE PARK ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE THE WHERE THE LITTLE SPLASH PAD IS, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT NEEDING A STEERING COMMITTEE. OR MAYBE YOU KEEP STEERING COMMITTEES AND YOU GET THEM TO WORK AND THEY FIX THINGS AND THEY CLEAN IT. I THINK STEERING COMMITTEES COULD BE AS AS LONG TERM AS NEEDED, BUT I SEE THEM MORE ON THE FRONT END OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ACTUAL PLAN FOR THE PARK.

AND I CAN SEE WHAT'S BEEN SAID ABOUT THEIR SOME OF THE PARKS THAT ARE BIG ENOUGH AND UNIQUE ENOUGH AND MULTIDIMENSIONAL ENOUGH. MAYBE THEY NEED THEM ONGOING, BUT A LOT OF THEM PROBABLY ONCE YOU GET THEM UP AND RUNNING, I WOULD KIND OF CONSIDER OUR PARK AND REC COMMISSION AND OUR AND OUR TEAM REALLY AS THAT COMMITTEE OR AS THAT STEERING COMMITTEE GOING FORWARD. RIGHT? AS WE'VE ALREADY HAD A BLESSING ON, ON A PARK TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING AS IT CHANGES, AS WE ADAPT, AS WE CONTINUE TO IMPLEMENT THAT EXISTING PLAN, WE MIGHT HAVE SOME CHANGES. AND THAT IS ONE THING THAT WITH THIS PLAN, IT DOES SAY WE BUILD TO THIS SPECIFIC IMAGE OR POTENTIALLY A SCALED DOWN IMAGE OF WHAT THE PARK COULD LOOK LIKE WITH A BULLETED POINTS, WITH BULLETED POINTS SAYING, YOU KNOW THIS MANY TREES PER ACRE, THIS AND THAT TAKES AWAY FROM MAYBE HAVING THE STREET TREES. BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

[02:00:04]

AND WHEN YOU ADJUST THE MASTER PLAN TO GO BACK TO COUNCIL, THAT'S OUT THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S CUMBERSOME. YEAH, I WOULD AGREE. BUT ONE THING I WANT TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT WE ARE NOT BUILDING PARKS. WE'RE NOT BUILDING MULTIPLE PARKS A YEAR. RIGHT? IN THE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, WE WOULD HAVE WE WOULD HAVE PUT THIS TO USE REALLY COMING UP ON MAPPING, RIGHT? WE'RE STARTING TO PLAN MAP AND WE WOULD HAVE USED IT FOR HERITAGE. OTHER THAN THAT, IN 13 YEARS WE WOULDN'T REALLY HAVE USED IT. SO IN OUR CAPITAL PLAN FOR IMPACT FEES, WE DO HAVE SANDY DOWNS CONVERSION. WE HAVE SOMETHING BEING BUILT ON THE NORTH END OF TOWN. THEN WE HAVE THE SOCCER COMPLEX ON THE WEST SIDE. THOSE ARE THE THREE THAT WOULD BE NEW BUILDS, NEW DEVELOPMENTS. BUT I THINK YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT ME TOO. SO BUT WHEN WE WANT TO TO UPDATE A CURRENT PARK, RIGHT? LET'S SAY WE WANT TO ADD TO THE ZOO, RIGHT? THEN WE WANT TO BRING THOSE UP TO, TO THE STANDARDS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO REDO ALL OF THOMAS PARK, BUT WE DO WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY, WELL, HERE ARE THE STANDARDS THAT THAT BY ADDING THIS WILL CREATE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND THEN ADJUST THE ENTIRE OFFICE PARK MASTER PLAN SO THAT WE CAN DO SOMETHING TO TOP THIS PARK. IT'S IT DOES FOLLOW THIS, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE LIKE THIS MASTER PLAN THAT IS ASPIRATIONAL. THAT'S CONSULTANTS CAME IN AND SPENT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON. WE WANT LISTS OF WHAT PARKS ARE AND THEN THE AMENITIES THAT ADD TO THEM WHAT NEW REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE. WHAT'S THE NEW PARKING REQUIREMENT WHEN YOU PUT IN A TENNIS COURT, WHAT'S THE PARKING REQUIREMENT WHEN YOU PUT IN BALL DIAMONDS? RIGHT? LIKE IT'S, IT'S AS THE INTENSITY INCREASES. SO I THINK IT'S LIKE 90% OF THE WAY THERE, BUT IT JUST FEELS LIKE WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO USE THE ASPIRATIONAL PLAN WHEN IT COMES TO. DETAILS. YEAH, RIGHT. I MEAN, EVENTUALLY WE GO TO CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THOSE EXTRA STANDARDS WILL COME IN. I AGREE SOMETHING THAT'S OCCURRED TO ME IS THAT MAYBE THIS IS A WAY TO EMPOWER THE THE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION TO, TO GET THEM. YES. BUYING IN MORE AND HAVE THEM HAVE MORE RESPONSIBILITY AS FAR AS APPROVING THESE THINGS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? NOT APPROVING, BUT LIKE GIVING A RECOMMENDATION. YEAH. RIGHT. WE LOOK SORRY. WE RUN IT THROUGH THEM FOR, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEM BE THE BE THE, THE BODY THAT, THAT THAT'S IT, I GUESS. YEAH, YEAH. AND WE DISCUSSED THAT OF, OF HOW TO HAVE THAT POSSIBLE. WOULD THEY OPERATE LIKE A PLANNING COMMISSION WITH A LITTLE MORE POWER? OR WOULD THEY BE KIND OF LIKE THE IMPACT FEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, RIGHT? WHERE THEY JUST HAVE ADVISORY ROLE? WE, WE DIDN'T REALLY NAIL THAT DOWN SPECIFICALLY UNTIL WE HAD A LITTLE MORE DIRECTION. BUT YEAH, HOW THAT WOULD WORK WITH, WE FELT LIKE THERE WAS AN IMPORTANCE TO EMPOWER THAT PARKS AND REC COMMISSION. I MEAN, I THINK IF IT WAS GOOD, IF YOU THOUGHT IT MIGHT COME TO COUNCIL, THAT IT OUGHT TO GO TO THEM FIRST. RIGHT? YEAH. WHICH I THINK MEANS THAT YOU SHOULD PROBABLY DO CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS THROUGH THEM BEFORE THEY COME TO US FOR BUDGETING. AND THEN WE'RE BUDGETING. THEN EVERYONE'S KIND

[02:05:03]

YOU COULD MAKE IT THAT WAY THAT THE PARKS AND REC COMMISSION IS THE FINAL SAY ON IT. WE WE THOUGHT MAYBE CITY COUNCIL WOULD WANT INPUT ON IT. AND THAT'S WHY FINAL APPROVAL WOULD BE THERE. YEAH, YEAH, FOR SURE. IT WOULD COME TO US. I MEAN, THERE'S BUDGETARY IMPLICATIONS TO ALL OF IT. SURE. NOT TO UNDERSTAND. WHAT DO YOU THINK ULTIMATELY ABOUT REQUIRING THE NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING? JUST ME LIVING ON THOMAS DRIVE. AND IF I WOULD WANT TO GO TO A MEETING ABOUT THE NEW DESIGN OF, YOU KNOW, THE ZOO BECAUSE THEY'RE MOVING, THEY'RE CLOSING A ROAD AND THEY'RE DOING IT'S JUST MY QUESTION, IS THIS GOING TO APPLY TO PARKS THAT ALREADY EXIST, THAT HAVE A MASTER PLAN? I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WOULDN'T. I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO. I MEAN, I MEAN, IF IT'S A MASTER PLAN IS JUST A IT'S JUST A VISION, RIGHT? AND THE, SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, THERE'S NOT SETBACKS BUILT INTO THAT MASTER PLAN.

THERE'S NOT I MEAN, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT DON'T EVEN APPLY AND COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WOULD DO THIS. WE'RE NOT EVEN. IT'S LIKE TAKING COMPREHENSIVE IS WHAT I'M THINKING. BUT THERE'S PROBABLY SOME SORT OF SCOPE, LIKE IF WE'RE JUST CHANGING OUT PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT, THAT JUST SEEMS OFF TOPIC TO ME. MAYBE IT'S NOT THOUGH. SAY THAT AGAIN. DOES THAT SEEM OFF TOPIC THOUGH? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A NEW BATHROOM. WHAT THIS IS NOW LIKE THE THE DESIGN DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. DOES IT SEEM OFF TOPIC TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A NEW BATHROOM IS GOING TO COME BEFORE COUNCIL? I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IT'S INSPIRATION.

I THINK IT IS AS PART OF THAT INTENSIFICATION PIECE THAT IT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT HAS TO COME TO COUNCIL. I THINK IT'S JUST THAT THOSE FIRST VISIONS OF WHAT IT IS, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, IF THE PARK CHANGES, LIKE, OH, THIS IS NO LONGER THIS KIND OF A PARK, WE'RE GOING TO BE ADDING ROADS. YEAH. SOMETHING MAJOR TO IT THAT WOULD BE A TOTAL DIFFERENT VISION OF WHAT THAT SPACE WOULD BE. THEN IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD GO BACK AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BUDGETARY ELEMENT, RIGHT? THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME BEFORE US INHERENTLY, RIGHT? SO I DO THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE EXISTING OUR EXISTING PARKS. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO WHEN WHEN WE DO SOMETHING AT THE ZOO, FOR EXAMPLE, OR WE DO SOMETHING AT TUFTS, WE DON'T WANT TO BRING THE WHOLE PARK UP TO THE COMMERCIAL STANDARD. WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO OFF OF THESE KIND OF MASTER PLAN LISTS AND BE ABLE TO DO CONSTRUCTION AS IT MOVES THROUGH THIS COMMITTEE. AND MAYBE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE BIT, COUNCILMEMBER DINGMAN ALSO REALIZED, LIKE THE MAYOR HAD SAID, COMMERCIAL STANDARD. THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN WOULD BE THE STANDARD. IT WOULD NO LONGER BE EMBEDDED IN THE ZONING CODE, BUT THE STANDARDS WOULD REALLY BE INFORMED BY THE IRC, LIKE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY FOR SAFETY AND PRODUCTION. YES AND NO. I MEAN, YOU WOULD HAVE ELEMENTS OF, FOR EXAMPLE, A BATHROOM, YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT BATHROOM IS LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY. AND YOU HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, I'LL SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES. WE TRIED TO DRAFT A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. YOU'D HAVE THESE, BUT, BUT YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE A COUPLE ELEMENTS WHERE WHAT IS THAT BUFFERING LOOK LIKE FROM RESIDENTIAL THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CALLED OUT IN THE, IN THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

AND WHAT THAT IS, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE TO DEFINE SOMETIMES. YEAH. AND SO I'LL SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES. I TRIED TO DRAW ONE UP. IT'S IN WADE'S VERY ROUGH. I DID WANT TO GO UP JUST TO PRESENT A PROS AND CONS TO THIS. THIS IS THIS IS A NEW WAY OF THINKING, ESPECIALLY FROM THE PLANNING SIDE. IT'S A VERY NEW WAY OF THINKING. SO THE NICE THING, SO I'LL GO WITH THE PROS FIRST IS YOU REALLY WILL GET A PARK FACILITY THAT'S SPECIFIC TO THAT PARK. IT'LL IT'LL ENCAPSULATE THE CHARACTER. IF IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD PARK, IT WILL ENCAPSULATE THAT BY THE BY THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO IT'LL BE VERY INDIVIDUAL. THAT IN ESSENCE GIVES YOU THE FLEXIBILITY AND ADAPTABILITY THAT YOU WANT. THAT TYPICAL ZONING WOULD POTENTIALLY NOT GIVE YOU AS MUCH. IT'S IT'S ZONING WILL KEEP YOU A LITTLE

[02:10:05]

IT ALSO EMPOWERS PARKS AND REC. I MEAN, IT PUTS PARKS AND REC. THEY'RE THE MASTER OF THEIR OWN DESTINY ON THESE PARKS. THEN MOVING FORWARD, AND IT'LL HELP THEM TO GET WHAT THEY REALLY WANT IN TERMS OF THEIR PARKS. IT'S ALSO WE TALKED ABOUT BUDGETARY, BUT ALSO IT'S IT'S AN EASIER WAY TO MANAGE RESOURCE ALLOCATION. SO IF YOU HAVE A GRANT OR A DONATION, YOU CAN ALIGN THAT INVESTMENT WITH WHAT THAT PARK PLAN IS OR AMENDED TO MAKE SURE IT'S MEETING THOSE NEEDS. AND AS WE SAID, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT CITY COUNCIL HAD INPUT AND BUY IN ON IT. SO THIS WILL GIVE YOU THE ABILITY ALMOST LIKE A PUD YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE DIRECT SAY NOW ON WHAT THE PARK LOOKS LIKE. HOWEVER, BE COGNIZANT THAT WITH THAT, IF IF WE EXEMPT PARKS FROM THE ZONING CODE JUST TO PLAY BOTH SIDES, IT OPENS YOU UP TO GREATER SCRUTINY.

YOU'LL HAVE SCRUTINY NOT JUST FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, BUT REALIZE WHY IS THIS INTERFACE RIGHT? THAT QUESTION WOULD NO LONGER COME TO MY DEPARTMENT. THAT WOULD COME TO PARKS OR CITY COUNCIL, AND THEY WOULD SAY, WHY WAS THIS ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED LIKE IT WAS? AND THAT'S NOT A BAD THING, BUT IT'S JUST JUST BE COGNIZANT THAT THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY BE SCRUTINIZED OR FROM THE COMMERCIAL STANDARDS, REALIZE THERE WOULD BE POTENTIAL FOR A DEVELOPER TO SAY, WHY IS KING CURLY PARK DEVELOPED DIFFERENTLY THAN MY PROJECT OR WHY ARE THE STANDARDS DIFFERENT? AND THAT'S WHERE YOU JUST SHOW THE THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. BUT DON'T YOU ALSO, YOU ALSO HAVE THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO, TO SPREAD THE COST OVER 50 YEARS OR 30 YEARS. AND WE DON'T. OR THE OTHER ARGUMENT IS THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD A PARK. YEAH. RIGHT. I MEAN, IF THEY WANT TO COME AND BUILD AND IF THEY WANT INPUT, THEY CAN, THEY CAN, THEY WANT TO BUILD IT THIS, YOU KNOW, AND GIVE IT TO THE CITY. YEAH. AND THAT THIS WOULD BE THE STANDARD THAT WE WOULD EXPECT THEM AND THE PROCESS THAT WE WOULD EXPECT THEM TO GO THROUGH IF THEY WANTED TO BUILD A PUBLIC PARK AS WELL. YEAH. AND THEN, YEAH, AND THEN A COUPLE OTHER THINGS. AS I WAS THINKING THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT, IT PUTS MORE BURDEN ON YOUR PARKS AND REC DIRECTOR BECAUSE NOW THAT HAS TO BE DEVELOPED BY THEM.

THERE'S NOT A ZONING STANDARD THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. IT'S THAT FLEXIBILITY. SO THAT THAT GIVES A LITTLE BIT MORE ADMINISTRATION. SO ARE WE WHEN WE'RE DEVELOPING THESE PARKS PLANS, ARE WE CONSULTING OUT? ARE WE NEEDING TO HIRE A STAFF THAT CAN HANDLE THIS AS WE MOVE FORWARD? THE ADMINISTRATION OF IT JUST IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. I YOU KNOW, WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT AND WORK THROUGH IT. I'M JUST PRESENTING CONS HERE. YOU ALSO WITH THIS ISN'T A DIG OR ANYTHING, BUT IT COULD POLITICIZE THE DEVELOPMENT OF PARKS. SO YOU COULD GET TO WHERE A DEVELOPMENT PLAN, FOR EXAMPLE, IS REALLY SPECIFIC AND AS OPPOSED TO JUST BEING GENERAL GUIDELINES THAT THE ZONING CODE BRINGS. SO THAT COULD BE THAT COULD BE A CON AS WELL. BUT CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT WHEN YOU WHEN YOU PUT THAT IN THERE? I'M NOT ARGUING WITH IT. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND KIND OF AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. YEAH, I WAS THE THING I WAS THINKING OF IS, IS IT LIKE, AND I THINK PURELY FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE ON DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE. YEAH.

YEAH. THANKS. TRY TO BE, I GUESS I SHOULD SAY. BUT, BUT LIKE ONE THING IN, IN OUR REALM IS WHEN A DEVELOPER COMES TO US, WE WANT VERY TIGHT PARAMETERS IN WHICH THAT DEVELOPMENT COMES THROUGH. BECAUSE PLANNING IN ITS HISTORY, IF YOU'VE EVER READ IT, IS INHERENTLY CORRUPTED. AND SO IT GETS CORRUPTED BY USUALLY WEALTH AND POWER. AND, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE CASE AND MAYBE SETTING THIS UP A LITTLE BIT BAD, BUT BUT BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT'S WHY WE CONSTANTLY DEFER TO THE CODE AND PROFESSIONALS THAT TYPICALLY DO THE DEVELOPMENT. AND, AND WHEN I SAY POLITICIZATION, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHAT IF A PARK PLAN COMES TO CITY COUNCIL AND ONE COUNCIL MEMBER DOESN'T LIKE HOW IT'S DESIGNED AND THE OTHER ONE DOES. NOW YOU'VE GOT A POLITICAL DISCUSSION IN THERE AS OPPOSED TO, WELL, GENERAL PARK'S PRACTICE IS PUT THIS HERE AND THAT THERE. IT JUST OPENS IT UP.

SO THE THE NATURE OF THE PARK, WHETHER WE WANT IT TO BE A CURLY OR WE WANT IT TO BE A TOPHUS OR A TYPE PARK, YOU COULD GET THAT PUSH PULL. YEAH, YOU COULD GET THAT PUSH PULL A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. I ALSO THOUGHT ONE THING THAT WE WERE THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT WAS, WAS IF YOU HAVE MAYBE A COUNCIL MEMBER, THAT IS A, I'M JUST GOING TO SAY LIKE A PICKLEBALL

[02:15:05]

AND SOMEHOW THROUGH THIS DISCUSSION, IT GETS TURNED INTO PICKLEBALL. COULD THAT BE TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED AT AS WELL? YOU ONLY DID THAT BECAUSE OF THIS. YOU HAD A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING AND THEY HAD SAID THEY WANTED TENNIS. AFTER COMING TO COUNCIL, IT GOT TURNED INTO A PICKLEBALL COURT. WE FELT LIKE THAT WAS BECAUSE X, Y, AND Z OR THAT. COUNCILMEMBER. BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF SIX COUNCIL MEMBERS? I DO, YOU KNOW, IT'S THAT YOU HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING, YOU PRESENT TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE COUNCIL AND SAY, THIS WAS A TENNIS COURT. I MEAN, UNLESS THROUGH THE LIAISON SYSTEM, THREE OTHER PEOPLE AGREE WITH THEM. EXACTLY. AND THEN. EXACTLY. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. BECAUSE MAYBE THOSE PEOPLE ALREADY TALKED TO 20 PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. I MEAN, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE REPRESENTATION OF OF COUNCIL. AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE GIVEN A LITTLE BIT OF PRELIMINARY ON THAT. THESE WERE JUST THINGS FROM TRADITIONAL ZONING. I'M SEEING THAT THIS WOULD POTENTIALLY BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE BROUGHT UP. THE OTHER ONES IS, IS YOU COULD POTENTIALLY GET PARK DEVELOPMENT PLANS THAT ARE LESS STRUCTURED THAN STANDARD ZONING, WHICH COULD BE PROBLEMATIC AS WELL. IT COULD ALSO BE A BENEFIT AS WELL. SO AND THEN AS I COMMENTED BEFORE, LIKE HOW WILL THESE PLANS BE PREPARED? IS THAT A BUDGET ASK IS, IS HOW ARE WE GOING TO GO ABOUT PREPARING THEM? AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE, WE'VE NEVER REALLY DONE LIKE THIS. AND SO IT'S KIND OF CHARTING INTO NEW WATERS. AND THUS BECAUSE OF THAT, IN ESSENCE, IT WOULD BE THERE'S A LEARNING CURVE THERE, THERE'D BE A LEARNING CURVE FOR THE PARKS AND REC COMMISSION. THERE'D BE A LEARNING CURVE FOR CITY COUNCIL. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BAD THING, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAT WE'VE NEVER DONE BEFORE. AND WHEN WE LOOKED OVER THE ENTIRE STATE, WE ACTUALLY FOUND NO ONE IS DOING IT THIS WAY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF FIRST OUT OF THE GATE. AND SO WOULD THAT BE A CHALLENGE TO US? I DON'T KNOW, BUT IN SHORT, I THINK IT'S IT'S A GOOD IDEA. I THINK IT'S IT'LL HELP US GET TO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. BUT I JUST THOUGHT YOU WENT AWAY BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN AS MY JOB AS JUST AN ADVISOR. SO, SO DEVIL'S ADVOCATE IN ME KEEPS TRYING TO FIND WAYS THAT SOMEBODY'S GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. RIGHT. WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT. YEAH, RIGHT. I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT I THINK, AGAIN, I COME BACK TO THE COMMENT THERE'S SIX OF US HERE, RIGHT? AND SO IF WE'RE ALL IN, YOU KNOW, OR FOUR OF US ARE AT LEAST WANTING SOMETHING TO SEE SOMETHING, THEN THAT SHOWS GOOD REPRESENTATION, I THINK ACROSS THE BOARD. DO YOU DO YOU SEE AS PART OF THIS INITIAL PROCESS, COMING UP WITH A HANDFUL OF KIND OF BASIC PARK DESCRIPTIONS? IS THAT IS THAT PART OF WHAT. YEAH, I WOULD DO IN THIS. SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THIS IS WHERE. YEAH, WE'RE TRYING TO. YEAH. I'LL SHOW YOU A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF WHAT I WAS THINKING. AND ONE OF THE LINKS ISN'T PULLING UP. I WAS CHECKING BEFORE THIS MEETING, SO I'LL HAVE TO DESCRIBE IT A LITTLE BIT. BUT SO THIS IS THE FIRST ONE. THIS ACTUALLY COMES UP FROM MERIDIAN, IDAHO. NOW GRANTED THIS IS A MASTER PLAN THAT THEY'RE AMENDING. I THE ONLY REASON I SHOW THIS IS FROM PUBLIC INPUT. THEY ACTUALLY GOT.

AND THESE ARE WHEN THEY DO LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS, WHEN THEY DRAW THIS STUFF UP, THIS IS THIS IS HOW THEY DRAW IT. SO IT'S ALWAYS ARTSY IN THE WAY THAT THEY DRAW THEIR NOTES. I ALWAYS FIND THAT FUNNY ABOUT LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS, BUT YOU'LL NOTICE THERE'S INPUT FROM HERE THAT THEY TOOK THIS INITIAL PLAN. THEN THEY HAD INPUT. AND YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE ADDING LIKE PICKLEBALL COURTS OR THIS SOCCER FIELD RIGHT HERE IS GOING AWAY BECAUSE THEY WANTED PICKLEBALL COURTS THERE. OR THESE ARE TENNIS COURTS, SORRY, OR TENNIS COURTS AND PICKLEBALL COURTS. THEY ALSO THROUGH PUBLIC INPUT, THEY ALSO, HEY, WE NEED ACCESS TO THE WESTERN PART OF THE PARK, RIGHT? SO YOU'D HAVE TO INCORPORATE THAT AS, AS YOU HAVE PUBLIC INPUT. THESE, THESE OTHER TWO ARE JUST EXAMPLES, MIND YOU. AND AGAIN, I'M LOOKING AT A FULL PARKS MASTER PLAN, JUST AS THE MAYOR SAID, THESE WERE CONCEPTUAL IDEAS, BUT I WANTED TO SEE ONE THAT KIND OF GRILLED DOWN TO DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS REALLY HARD TO READ WITH THESE BULLET POINTS, BUT THIS IS ONE I FOUND AT A MERIDIAN, AND IT CALLS OUT A COUPLE DEVELOPMENT ELEMENTS, LIKE THE PARKING LOT WILL BE PAVED AND IT WILL BE LOCATED HERE. THE OTHER ONE IS MORE CONCEPTUAL. SO THIS ONE CALLS OUT A QUARTER MILE LOOP TRAIL. IT DOES SHOW IT, BUT IT JUST CALLS IT OUT. SAYING A QUARTER MILE LOOP TRAIL WILL BE ON THIS PARK SOMEWHERE. SO WHERE WILL THAT BE? WELL, YOU COULD CALL IT OUT ON THE PARK PLAN, OR YOU CAN JUST SAY IT HAS A QUARTER MILE TRAIL ON IT SOMEWHERE. SO WHATEVER THE TRAIL SYSTEM IS, IS A QUARTER MILE. THEY ALSO CALL OUT SOME PICTURES TO SHOW LIKE WHAT THEY FORESEE, LIKE WITH THEIR PAVILION, WHAT THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD LOOK LIKE, AND THEN YOU WOULD CALL OUT WHERE THAT WOULD BE. SO THIS NEXT ONE. AND THEN THEY HAVE I WAS GOING, I CAN'T GET THE LINK TO WORK, BUT I

[02:20:05]

AND THAT'S AS EASY AS IT IS. I TRIED TO DRAFT SOMETHING. SO THIS IS WADE'S ROUGH DRAWING IN SKETCHUP. AND I HAVEN'T USED SKETCHUP FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS. SO I YEAH, I CALL IT HOME PARK.

SO I WAS DOING WHAT, WHAT PJ WAS TALKING ABOUT, WHERE YOU WOULD CALL OUT THESE BLOCKS OF AREAS SO YOU WOULD HAVE BASEBALL DIAMONDS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY SHOW THE SPECIFIC BASEBALL DIAMOND, BUT YOU COULD SHOW IT AS THIS NEBULOUS BLOB, RIGHT? THE BASEBALL DIAMONDS ARE GOING TO BE HERE. THE WATER FEATURE, AS YOU REMEMBER, WILL BE FRANCIS DECORATIVE FOUNTAIN. WE'LL CALL IT THAT, WHATEVER IT IS, BUT IS RIGHT THERE AND WHERE IT'S LOCATED. AND YOU CAN HAVE ALL THESE ELEMENTS. I ALSO TRIED TO CALL OUT AND I CALL THEM PHASES BECAUSE I THINK LIKE A PLANNER, BUT YOU COULD SEE WHERE THE INTENSITY WOULD INCREASE. I TRIED TO CALL THAT OUT. SO THERE'S SOME STANDARD HERE OF LIKE PATHWAY NEEDS TO CONNECT TO ADJACENT PROPERTY, PEDESTRIAN NETWORK. YOU'D HAVE 20 FOOT TREE SPACING ALONG RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES TO THE NORTH. YOU'D HAVE THOSE TREES WOULD BE EVERGREEN TREES, OR YOU COULD HAVE A LANDSCAPE BUFFER IS 15FT ONLY. ON THE NORTH SIDE. YOU COULD CALL OUT THAT TREES ARE NOT, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CALL IT OUT, BUT YOU CAN SHOW IT THROUGH THIS PLAN AND ALSO THROUGH PHASING. AND I CALL IT PHASING. BUT YOU WOULD SEE WHERE AS THE INTENSITY INCREASES, THEN IN YOUR NARRATIVE OF THE PLAN WOULD BE, HEY, BY THE TIME WE GET TO PHASE TWO AFTER PHASE ONE IS DONE, THEN PHASE TWO WE HAVE TO LIGHT THE PATHWAY. WE HAVE TO DECORATIVE PAVERS ON THE CORNER. I JUST TRIED TO THROW IN AS MUCH AS I COULD. WE COULD CALL OUT THE NUMBER OF HOW MANY BASEBALL DIAMONDS ARE ACTUALLY CREATED. YOU COULD CREATE LESS. AND NEXT TO ALL THOSE, YOU COULD SAY IMPACT FEE. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. AND ALSO I HAD IT PHASE TWO, JUST BECAUSE PJ HAD TALKED ABOUT THIS, LIKE INITIALLY, THIS PARKING LOT GETS BUILT WITH GRAVEL, BUT THEN AS YOU HIT PHASE TWO, YOU'RE PAVING THAT PARKING RIGHT THERE. SO I WAS TRYING TO CALL THAT OUT AS JUST FROM OUR DISCUSSIONS AND LIKE THE PARKING STALLS, YOU'D CALL OUT. BUT ALL THIS WOULD JUST BE PART OF THAT, THAT PLAN. SO, SO WITH THAT. SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? AND ARE WE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION? IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE THINKING? WE TRIED TO REALLY MY FOCUS AND PJ'S MAY BE A LITTLE BIT. I WAS TRYING TO GET TO THE FLEXIBILITY AND I DO HAVE TO THANK MY STAFF. WE SAT DOWN AS A DIVISION A COUPLE OF TIMES TO TALK ABOUT THIS, AND REALLY THIS WAS HOW WE GOT TO THIS SOLUTION. BUT IF WE'RE MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, WE'RE HAPPY TO ADJUST THAT AND BRING SOMETHING BACK TO YOU. I LIKE IT, I THINK MY I GUESS MY SUGGESTION REALLY FOR PJ WOULD BE THAT AS YOUR TEAM PUTS TOGETHER THOSE STEERING COMMITTEES THAT THAT'S DONE, YOU KNOW, IN A THOUGHTFUL FASHION TO ENSURE THAT WE'VE GOT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT TERM IS, BUT THE RIGHT PEOPLE, SO TO SPEAK, THAT ARE SITTING ON THAT STEERING COMMITTEE. RIGHT? THAT AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU LISTED SOME EXAMPLES, BUT I THINK THAT WAS ALL APPROPRIATE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S A FOCAL POINT OF, OF THE RIGHT SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE PARK IS. AND THAT IS NOT THE STEERING COMMITTEE IS NOT JUST THE PARKS COMMISSIONERS, RIGHT? BUT THAT IS MADE UP OF THE APPROPRIATE KIND OF SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS. AND EITHER I THINK YOU SHOULD APPOINT THEM OR GIVE THE POWER TO THE MAYOR TO APPOINT THEM AND THEN APPROVAL. OKAY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO WITH ALL THE OTHER ALL THE OTHERS. YEAH. SO DON'T ADD TO THAT. I THINK WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT PART NEED A STEERING COMMITTEE, THAT'S WHAT. DON'T LIKE 20TH STREET PARK. WE DON'T NEED A STEERING COMMITTEE THERE. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD FLEXIBLE IN YOUR HANDS. AND WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT WHERE IT WOULD BE. CLEARLY, NEW PARKS STEERING COMMITTEE MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. YEAH, I THINK IT MIGHT. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION. MAYBE WE INVENTORY. BUT I THINK YOU DO.

NEIGHBORHOOD VERSUS COMMUNITY PARKS. COMMUNITY PARKS WOULD HAVE AN ONGOING STEERING COMMITTEE BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE HOW MANY OF THEM. AND MAYBE THAT'S WHEN THE MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARK, EXCUSE ME, MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARK WOULD ONLY NEED THAT NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. YEAH. AND SOME BECAUSE 20TH STREET IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. AND THAT WOULD BE A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING BECAUSE LIKE WE SAID, YOU COULD LET THEM CHOOSE WHAT KIND OF TOYS THEY WANT IN THAT PARK BECOMES HYPER LOCAL, WHICH IS. YEAH, YEAH, EXACTLY. AND YOU

[02:25:03]

OUR GRANT IS DUE FOR THIS FIRST OR THIS ROUND, AUGUST 14TH. AND WE ARE. I'M. I'M NOT. I'M SERIOUS BY SAYING I'M EXCITED. IT'S GOING TO BE A. IT'LL BE A GOOD 30 YEARS CELEBRATION THAT WE'RE BACK IN COMPLIANCE. SO THAT'S TEN YEARS OF, OF MYSELF WORKING ON IT SINCE 2016.

FANTASTIC. HERE WE ARE. OKAY, SO THAT IS, THAT IS THEN THE PLAN MOVING FORWARD IS THAT WE

[02:30:03]

[Legal]

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'VE GOT THE REASONS WHAT I'VE GOT UP ON THE SCREEN IS THE ORIGINAL REASON STATEMENT. AND JUST BECAUSE THE VOTE WAS THREE TWO AND COUNCIL MEMBER LARSEN WASN'T THERE, I'M REALLY LOOKING FOR DIRECTION FROM THE THREE WHO VOTED IN THE MAJORITY. AS FAR AS HOW WE'RE GOING TO ALTER THE REASON STATEMENT. I WAS EXPLAINING TO COUNCIL PRESIDENT FRANCIS, REALLY WHAT WHAT THE TASK IS HERE. WE HAVE TO ISSUE A WRITTEN DECISION. THAT BASICALLY GIVES CITY COUNCIL THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE ANYTHING BASED ON ITS REASONS, BASED ON ANY ARGUMENTS MADE BY THE APPLICANT OR THE PUBLIC AT THE MEETING WE HAD LAST THURSDAY, IF IT WANTS TO SHORE UP ANY PART OF THE REASON STATEMENT, REMOVE ANY PART OF IT, THAT IF ANY OF THE ARGUMENTS JIVE WITH YOU LIKE, HEY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. LET'S, LET'S SHORTER THIS UP OR LET'S REMOVE OR ADD SORT OF THING. SO MY, WHAT I WOULD THINK ABOUT GOING THROUGH IS JUST GO THROUGH IT. I HAVE SOME POINTS THAT I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO, TO CONSIDER. THAT'S MY PROPOSAL. ALTHOUGH THIS IS YOUR RECENT STATEMENT, WE CAN APPROACH THIS HOWEVER YOU WANT, BUT THAT WOULD BE WE'RE NOT THE COURT. I KNOW THE APPLICANT WAS SAYING A LOT ABOUT ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS, BUT THE CITY COUNCIL IS NOT THE ONE THAT MAKES THAT DETERMINATION. THAT'S FOR DISTRICT COURT. WHAT THEY'RE REALLY SAYING IS, HEY, WHEN WE YOU KNOW, IF WE TAKE THIS TO A LAWSUIT, THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ARGUE TO THE DISTRICT COURT. AND THAT'S WHAT THE STANDARD OF REVIEW THE DISTRICT COURT APPLIES IS WHETHER IT'S ARBITRARY OR CAPRICIOUS. BUT WE DON'T DECIDE THAT. OUR CITY COUNCIL DOESN'T DECIDE THAT. WHAT CITY COUNCIL DECIDES IS THE FACTS LIKE WE'VE GOT THERE, THE FINDINGS OF FACTS AND THEN CONCLUSIONS OF LAW. SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDED COURSE OF ACTION FOR TODAY. BUT I'M OPEN TO IDEAS IF YOU WANT TO APPROACH THIS DIFFERENTLY. I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, BECAUSE IT SEEMS ODD THAT WE DON'T WRITE SOME KIND OF REASON STATEMENT OF WHY WE DENIED THE RECONSIDERATION. WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY STATEMENT LIKE THAT. WE COULD DO IT THAT WAY. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO, WE CAN. WELL, I NEED THE LEGAL ADVICE BECAUSE IF IT GOES FROM HERE TO A COURT CASE, SO WHAT THE COURT JUST THE MAGIC MYSELF, IF I'M THE JUDGE, I'M GOING, WELL, WHY DID YOU DENY IT? AND WE DON'T HAVE A REASON STATEMENT TO GIVE THEM USUALLY THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. YEAH. SO WHAT WE'RE TEEING UP FOR IS FOR THE COURT TO REVIEW. AND WHAT'S GOING TO MATTER WITH THE COURT IS THE FACTUAL FINDINGS. AND IF THE LEGAL CONCLUSIONS FLOW FROM THOSE FACTUAL FINDINGS, AND THEN WE'LL REVIEW FOR, YOU KNOW, THOSE REVIEWS OF DISCRETION, ARBITRARY. IT'LL REVIEW THE FACTUAL FINDINGS UNDER SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE LENS. RIGHT. SO AS LONG AS THERE'S SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD, THE COURT WILL DEFER TO THIS BODY'S FACTUAL FINDINGS, BUT THEN IT'LL ANALYZE THE LEGAL CONCLUSIONS AND SEE IF THEY IF THEY FLOW FROM THE CONCLUSION, FROM THE FINDINGS OF FACT. I THINK THAT'S MOST CLEARLY DONE. IF WE JUST AMEND OUR RECENT STATEMENT THAT WAY. THAT WAY, OUR DECISION HAS BEEN MODIFIED FOR THE DISTRICT COURT TO BE ABLE TO VIEW. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE APPELLANT, THE APPLICANT WILL BE ABLE TO TACK IT ON THE PETITION FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW. MY OFFICE WILL DEFEND IT, AND THEN THE COURT WILL MAKE ITS DECISION BASED ON THAT. BUT THAT'S MY REPORT. IF WE WANT TO, WE COULD TRY THAT. WE

[02:35:01]

WE DON'T GO BACK TO THIS ONE AND SAY, I THINK IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT, I THINK YOU SHOULD REOPEN THE HEARING. INCLUDE THE SIXTH MEMBER OF THE GOVERNING BODY AND HAVE ASKED THE QUESTIONS THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO ASK, LIKE WHAT YOU THINK MADE THE PUBLIC AND THE PUBLIC AMENITIES NOT AVAILABLE. IF YOU COULD HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT, THEN, THEN YOU COULD. SO THE THINGS THAT WE COULD HAVE SAID NO TO, WE NEVER ASKED ABOUT LIKE THE PUBLIC ADMISSION WE DID, WE DID THAT. AND THAT'S IN THE FACTUAL FINDING FOR THE FIRST REASON STATEMENT. YOU, YOU ASKED THE APPLICANT WHETHER IT WAS A PUBLIC. NO, THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE YOU'RE ALREADY OUT OF. THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE ANOTHER HEARING TO DO THAT. YOU DO THE THINGS THAT WE WERE TOLD TO ASK. I HAVE A QUESTION. ARE WE LEGALLY. SINCE WE WENT AGAINST ANY OF YOUR ASSESSMENT, DO WE HAVE LEGAL PROTECTION AS INDIVIDUALS THAT VOTED ON THIS? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? MEANING THE STAFF? AND YOU TOLD US TO TAKE ANOTHER DIRECTION AND THEN WE VOTED AGAINST THAT DIRECTION.

DOES THAT PUT ANY OF US INDIVIDUALLY AT RISK OF GOING AGAINST LEGAL ADVICE? NO, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL HERE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BECAUSE TO SAY THAT STAFF SAID WE SHOULD HAVE APPROVED THIS. IF YOU GOT DIRECTOR CENTER UP HERE, HE WOULD NOT STATE THAT HE WAS SIMPLY PRESENTING A POSITION THAT SAID, HEY, THIS IS HOW AND WHY THEY WOULD AGREE. I WOULD AGREE, NOT SAYING THE APPROVAL THAT I'M SAYING ABOUT THE RECONSIDERATION HEARING AND WHAT WE NEEDED TO ASK. THERE WAS VERY SPECIFIC THINGS THAT WE WERE, DO YOU KNOW, AND MY JOB IS TO JUST TO BE CLEAR, MY JOB IS TO TO ALERT COUNSEL. AND I THINK, HEY, THERE MIGHT BE POTENTIAL HERE WITH THE COUNTERARGUMENTS TO, TO CONSIDER. I WANT YOU TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. AND THAT'S AND MY COUNSEL HAD ASKED FOR MY OPINION, SO I GAVE IT. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR COUNSEL TO BE AWARE OF THE POTENTIAL LEGAL HAZARDS. BUT MY OPINION IS NON-BINDING. OBVIOUSLY, IT'S JUST ADVICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, TO ME THAT WE'RE THE ONES WHO MAKE THAT DECISION. WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT

[02:40:03]

IT WAS NOT CAPRICIOUS BECAUSE WE'VE NOT APPROVED ONE THAT ACTUALLY HAD LESS THAN TWO ACRES THAT INCREASED IN DENSITY. SO, SO THERE WASN'T AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON ON THAT ONE. AND THEN WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE THE DEFINITION OF REDEVELOPMENT OR WHAT IS THE WORD NOT REDEVELOPMENT. REDEVELOPMENT WASN'T REDEVELOPING REDEVELOPING. YEAH.

THEN, I MEAN, I CAN DISAGREE WITH THAT. YEAH. I THINK THAT WAS I THINK IT IS. SO WHO, WHO, WHO, WHO VOTED YES. WHO OR I SHOULD SAY WHO VOTED NO TO US TO VOTE NO. OKAY. SO I THINK THIS RECENT STATEMENT THEN HAS TO REFLECT THE THREE OF US, RIGHT? SO I DON'T MEAN THIS IN ANY DISRESPECT TO EITHER ONE OF YOU TWO, BUT YOU DIDN'T VOTE. YOU GUYS DID SIGN ON TO THIS.

SO SO IS IT THE SO THAT'S THE QUESTION. DID THE THREE OF YOU WANT TO GO WITH WITH WHAT? LEGAL ADVICE IS GIVING US AS WE MOVE FORWARD? OR WOULD YOU PREFER TO TRY AND BOLSTER THAT? I KNOW THAT MAYBE THERE'S A COMBINATION OF BOTH, BUT THIS THIS WOULD BE TO YOU THREE AND AND THE REASON YOU CAN RESPOND TO THE ARGUMENTS, RIGHT? YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN DRAFT IT IN A WAY THAT RESPONDS TO THE ARGUMENTS. YOU CAN SAY LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, THE 200 FOOT REQUIREMENT. WE COULD SAY, TO BE CLEAR, THIS IS NOT IMPOSING A REQUIREMENT UNDER THE ORDINANCE. THIS IS JUST FOR THE CITY COUNCIL IS FINDING IS A PRACTICAL COMMON SENSE FACTOR, RIGHT? THAT THAT WE'RE WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE HAVE A FACTUAL FINDING OF IT'S, IT'S AT LEAST 200FT TO THE AMENITIES. AND THAT AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM GOING THERE. AND THAT UNDER THE LEGAL. SO THAT'S A FACTUAL FINDING. BUT WE WEREN'T YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT IMPLEMENTING A NEW REQUIREMENT THAT EVERY AMENITY HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN 200FT OF A PUBLIC STREET. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE APPLYING THE LEGAL STANDARD OF IT HAS TO BE A PUBLIC AMENITY. AND WE'RE SAYING, WELL, HERE, GIVEN THE PARTICULAR ORIENTATION OF HOW THE AMENITIES ARE IN THIS PARTICULAR POD, THAT IT'S NOT SUFFICIENTLY OR IT'S NOT A PUBLIC AMENITY AS A PRACTICAL MATTER. SO, MAYOR, WOULD IT BE SAFE TO SAY THAT THE THREE OF US AGREE THAT WE THAT THAT WE STILL SUPPORT THE FINDINGS OF FACT THAT THAT WAS DESCRIBED IN THE RECENT STATEMENT OF RELEVANT CRITERIA? THAT'S THAT'S IN FRONT OF US FROM JANUARY. RIGHT. AND THEN ZACH, MR. JONES HAS SOME IDEAS ON HOW TO ELABORATE, PERHAPS ON WHAT THE PUBLIC ACCESS MEANT. IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. I MEAN, THAT'S THE WAY WE COULD RESPOND. WE COULD WE COULD ADD THAT WE COULD RESPOND THAT WAY. AND THEN DO WE WANT TO HEAR FROM COUNCIL PRESIDENT? YES. I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HEAR SOME THOUGHTS ON THAT POINT. COUNCILMEMBER LEE AND I CAN SORT OF HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. YEAH, WE CAN LISTEN TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. YEAH, I'D ADD ANYTHING THAT HE DOESN'T COVER. OKAY. YEAH. AND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS JUST A KIND OF GENERAL DIRECTION. I'LL DRAFT IT UP AND I THINK IN THE NEXT WORK SESSION, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE JUST GETTING THE GENERAL DIRECTION ALL DRAFT THE BEST I CAN. YEAH. SO CAN I ASK ONE OTHER QUESTION THOUGH. YEAH. AND LIKE IN PART OF COUNCIL PRESIDENT FRANCIS'S MOTION THAT HE MADE THAT WE VOTED ON, YOU KNOW, INCLUDED TERMINOLOGY OR VERBIAGE, ESSENTIALLY SAYING

[02:45:04]

BUT THE IT, I DO THINK THAT THERE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO THIS. THAT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ALL SIX OF US TO SAY, YES, I CONCUR. AND THAT MAKES SENSE. AND WE THINK THAT IT DOES FOLLOW THE INTENT, BUT PRESENT IT AS IS. THERE WAS ENOUGH AGAINST IT THAT I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I COULD. IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, I STILL LOVE I STILL THINK THAT THEY'RE AN APPROPRIATE VEHICLE AND THAT THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL, EVEN WITH ITS CHALLENGES OF SIZES, WITH SOME MODIFICATION TO WHAT WAS PROPOSED, COULD HAVE BEEN.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S JUST INHERENTLY THE CHALLENGE OF THE LEGAL PROCEEDING THAT WE WERE IN. RIGHT? WE WERE THERE TO HEAR A PARTICULAR ITEM. AND IT DOESN'T REALLY IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T REALLY CREATE A GREAT PATH FOR SOME OF THOSE PERHAPS REMEDIES. RIGHT? I MEAN, WE WERE THERE TO MAKE A DECISION. WE COULD HAVE SAID ALL KINDS OF THINGS, RIGHT? I UNDERSTAND, BUT INHERENTLY COUNCIL'S. YEAH. I MEAN, WE COULD HAVE COME UP WITH LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS, RIGHT? BUT INHERENTLY WE WERE THERE TO CONFIRM OR. YEAH, THE CHALLENGE IS, IS THAT MEETING ISN'T THE MEETING WHERE WE COME UP AND SAY, WELL, IF YOU CHANGE X, Y, AND Z, I CAN'T HAPPEN. I YEAH, I THINK IT'S JUST A BAD VEHICLE FOR THAT, RIGHT? YES. I THINK THAT WE KIND OF HAVE TWO SEPARATE THINGS TO TALK ABOUT. RIGHT. WHICH IS JUST GETTING SOME DIRECTION HERE ON FIXING THIS OR ADDING TO AND, AND CREATING OUR NEW REINSTATEMENT OF RELEVANT CRITERIA FROM OUR LAST VOTE. AND THEN THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SORT OF A SEPARATE RELATIONSHIP CONVERSATION, SORT OF RIGHT BETWEEN CVS AND THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT AND THE DEVELOPER, PERHAPS WHERE THEY GO FROM THERE. AND I THINK THAT THE CDS LIAISONS, WHICH ARE WHO WHO'S THE CDS? YEAH. PERFECT. YEAH. THEN YOU GUYS CAN SORT OF WORK THAT OTHER PART OF THIS RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WE, WE ALWAYS WANT TO TRY TO FIND A RESOLUTION, RIGHT? YEAH.

WE WERE THERE FOR A VERY SPECIFIC REASON. RIGHT. SO, AND, AND TO THAT POINT, THERE WILL NEED TO BE SOME CLARITY FROM SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE APPLICANT MADE, LIKE, WELL, IF WE COME, IF WE TAKE THIS BEFORE YOU, YOU HAVE TO SHOW US A PATH FORWARD. YEAH. AND I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE. RIGHT. AND SO IS THAT TRUE OR IS THAT NOT TRUE? THERE WERE THINGS SAID IN THAT MEETING THAT IT'S LIKE, I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS. THIS IS EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF ANY OTHER LEGAL COUNSEL I'VE EVER BEEN GIVEN. SO. RIGHT. THIS IS. YEAH. AND IT WAS A BAD VEHICLE. IT WAS. THAT'S EXACTLY. YES. WELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT ATTORNEY THAT THEY THEY WERE, WHICH WAS 100% NOT OUR PROBLEM. RIGHT. BUT, BUT YEAH, BUT THERE IS SOME OF THAT POINT, BUT BUT BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS WE WANT TO COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION IF WE CAN. RIGHT. YES. AND SO I DO THINK THAT'S LIKE ANOTHER CONVERSATION PIECE. AND I WOULD I WOULD RECOMMEND ATTACHING IT TO THE END OF THE REASON STATEMENT, KIND OF LIKE SOME IDEAS FOR, YOU KNOW, INVITING THEM. AND THAT'S HELPFUL. YEAH, I THINK BECAUSE, BECAUSE WE WANT TO, IT'S A LITTLE TRICKY BECAUSE THE MEDIATION PROCESS INVOLVES ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.

AND SO WE'RE STILL IN EXPERT MODE. AND SO, SO I THINK IT'S GOOD TO IN A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.

BUT COMING BACK TO THAT COMMENT, RIGHT, IS I, I AGREE RIGHT THERE. IF WE CAN AGAIN, THROUGH, I DON'T KNOW, THROUGH SOME METHOD, WHATEVER YOU DEEM, I GUESS IS AND YOU'RE TELLING US IT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THEM SOME DIRECTION AS TO, HEY, WITH, WITH THESE CHANGES HERE, YOU NOW HAVE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? HOW DO YOU GET TO IT'S A PATH TO AN APPROVAL. I GUESS WE ALWAYS WANT TO TRY TO GET TO. YES. RIGHT. BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE'S NOW LIKE A. THERE AFTER THIS, THERE'S NOW A WHOLE OTHER SET OF CONVERSATIONS. AND WHETHER THAT GOES TO SOME KIND OF MEDIATION, QUOTE UNQUOTE, WHICH IS REALLY A LEGAL TERM THAT WE SOMETIMES. RIGHT. BUT WHETHER WE, WE HAVE DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY MAKE MODIFICATIONS, WHETHER THEY TAKE WHAT WE SAY AT THE END OF THIS RECENT STATEMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF HAVE THAT ROUND TWO HERE. BUT I THINK THE GOAL TODAY IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THIS IS AS TIGHT AS IT POSSIBLY CAN. AND REFLECTING THOSE OF US. I THINK THAT'S FAIR. RIGHT? YEP.

AND THE DEPARTMENT'S IN GREAT HANDS REPRESENTING US, I THINK. WELL, HERE'S A FEW OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT PUT DOWN, AND I TRY TO RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE LETTER FROM THE ATTORNEY KIND OF BREAKDOWN. AND ONE OF THEM IS THE WAY THAT VERY CLEARLY THE CODE MAKES UNDER TWO ACRES A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE. AND IN THIS CASE, IT WAS VERY MUCH APPLIED TO WILLOW PLACE TOWNHOMES BECAUSE THEY'RE EXCEEDING THE DENSITY OF THE UNDERLYING CODE. AND SO THAT MAKES CONSIDERATION BY COUNCIL AND USER DISCRETION IMPORTANT. I ALSO SAID VERY IN RESPONSE TO

[02:50:03]

THAT WAS. QUOTE FROM THE ATTORNEY'S ARGUMENT, AND I GAVE ONE, TWO, THREE, 455 ARGUMENTS AGAINST THAT, TAKING IT APART, INCLUDING THE 200 FOOT ONE WAS A COMPLETE MISSTATEMENT BY THE APPELLANT, BECAUSE THAT WAS NEVER INTENDED AS A AS A PARAMETER FOR ANY FUTURE OR OTHER APPLICATION. IT WAS A STATEMENT OF FACT. THAT'S ALL IT WAS. AND THE STATEMENT OF FACT DEFENDING THE IDEA. WE DID NOT CONSIDER THAT TO BE. SO I PUT THAT IN THERE. I PUT THE PART ABOUT CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YEAH. SO WHAT WHAT GEM HAS DRAFTED. AND I THINK WHAT I HAVE DRAFTED PROBABLY THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL OVERLAP. CAN WE SEND THESE TO YOU? AND THEN YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, I GET THE IDEA. TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT BECAUSE I KNOW FRANCIS AND I ARE ALREADY ON THE SAME PAGE. NO PRIDE OF AUTHORSHIP RIGHT HERE. SO YOU LEGALIZE IT HOWEVER YOU THINK IS APPROPRIATE. BUT THE CONCEPTS THAT WE BOTH DRAFTED, I THINK, ARE GOING TO CONVEY VERY SIMILAR NOTIONS TO LEGAL DEPARTMENT. SO WE CAN EMAIL THESE TO YOU. YES, SURE. THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO HANDWRITE WHATEVER GEMS, WHICH IS GOOD. RIGHT. AND THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT HAS THIS DOCUMENT. YOUR RESPONSE, THIS RESPONSE IS ALREADY SENT TO YOU. OH, AND I DID INCLUDE A STATEMENT ABOUT WHY WE INCLUDED THE MOTION THAT THIS IS A RESOLVABLE ISSUE. I INCLUDED A RESPONSE TO THAT TOO. SO DID YOU SPEAK TO THE STATE LAW? WHAT? DID YOU SPEAK TO THE STATE LAW? I DID NOT, BECAUSE WHERE WAS I GOING TO SPEAK TO STATE LAW? THAT WAS WHAT MINUSES I NOTICED WAS THE STATE LAW, BUT IT WAS A32 VOTE. SO WE'RE THERE. YEAH. MINE DOES. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD. IN ESSENCE, TO ME, THERE'S SOME IMPLIED VALUE HERE. AND FOR THE REMAINDER OF OUR ORDINANCE AND OUR CODE. AND JUST BECAUSE THE WORD MAY APPEARS RIGHT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE THEN SHOULD JUST COPY AND PASTE OUR ENTIRE CODE AND PUT IT AT THE END OF THAT SENTENCE. IT IS IMPLIED THAT WE ARE RELYING UPON OUR CODE TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS. RIGHT. THAT'S ALSO IMPLIED. DILLON'S RULE SAYS, YEAH, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE YOUR YOUR CODE. I MEAN, WHY WOULD WE JUST COPY AND PASTE OUR ENTIRE ORDINANCE AT THE AND REFER BACK TO IT JUST BECAUSE WE PUT THE WORD MAY IN A IN A STATEMENT WITHIN THE ORDINANCE? IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. TO ME, THE REASON THE THREE OF US ARE VOTED THIS WAY IS THE CONCEPT OF UNDER TWO ACRES IS PROBLEMATIC. YES, BECAUSE YOU'RE ADDING A DENSITY SITUATION TO A VERY RELATIVELY SMALL PIECE OF LAND. SO THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN TO GIVE COUNCIL DISCRETION ON THAT VERY PURPOSEFULLY. YES. AND AND I THINK I'M REMINDED OVER AND OVER AGAIN OF SOME VERY HIGHLY RESPECTED COUNCIL MEMBER THAT SAID, WHEN WE ARE IN THOSE APPEALS, IN A QUASI JUDICIAL, WE DON'T MAKE LAW. WE DEAL WITH WHAT IS GIVEN US. WE WERE GIVEN THE DISCRETION. YOU MAY APPROVE UNDER TWO ACRES AT YOUR DISCRETION, PERIOD. AND THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL ARGUMENT OVER EVERYTHING. I COMPLETELY AGREE, AND I THANK YOU THAT THAT PIECE ALONE, WHAT IT WHAT IT WHAT IT TELLS US IN MY IN MY OPINION, IS THAT IF A PARCEL IS LESS THAN THAT, IT IS THEN ELIGIBLE FOR CONSIDERATION. YES, BUT IT IS NOT DEEMED TO FOR APPROVAL. I AGREE EXACTLY, BUT IT IS ELIGIBLE FOR US TO CONSIDER. OTHERWISE. YOU COULDN'T EVEN SUBMIT IT AS A WHY, WHY, WHY EVEN HAVE YOU GOING TO MAKE IT? I DON'T THINK EITHER OF US THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY OF THAT ARGUMENT EITHER. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID, I DIDN'T AGREE. YEAH, THAT WASN'T

[02:55:04]

YOU NEED TO MOVE THIS AND THIS. YOU NEED TO MAKE A TRAIL NEXT TO THE SCHOOL TO IT GOES TO THE SCHOOL. ALL OF THOSE ARE WITHIN CODE. AND WE'VE TOLD THEM AND WE HAVE GOTTEN A DEVELOPER THAT PICKED UP ON THOSE THINGS AND SAID, YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT. THAT'S NO PROBLEM. BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. WE DEVELOPED BECAUSE OF THE PROCEDURE AND THE WAY IT UNFOLDED. SO THAT'S WHY IF WE COULD JUST SIT DOWN, I THINK WE COULD SOLVE SOME OF THESE. YEAH. BUT ANYWAY, OKAY, SO WHAT I PROPOSE IS STRUCTURING IT THIS WAY THAT WE DENY FIRST ON THE BASIS THAT IT SAYS MAY AND MAY IS DISCRETIONARY. AND ESSENTIALLY IT WOULD BE WRITING IT OUT OF THE STATUTE OF THE COURTS, CHANGE IT TO A MAY. RIGHT? AND THEN THE ALTERNATIVE THAT THE COUNCIL IS EXERCISING ITS DISCRETION FOR SOME OF THE REASONS THAT YOU ILLUSTRATED, LIKE THERE'S DENSITY CONCERNS, THIS ONE HAS A HIGH. THIS IS OVER THE AMOUNT OF DENSITY PER THAT IT CAN HAVE AS A MATTER OF. RIGHT. WHEREAS THE OTHER POINTS WERE UNDER AND THAT THERE'S A SPECIAL CONSIDERATION WHEN. WHEN IT'S UNDER TWO ACRES, BECAUSE IT'S IT'S SUCH A SMALL AREA TO BEGIN WITH. IN ADDITION, WE COULD ALSO ADD THAT THIS THE STREETSCAPE PART. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE APPELLANT. THE APPLICANT DID NOT CHALLENGE THE FACTUAL. DIDN'T CHALLENGE ANY OF THE FACTUAL BASIS, ONLY SAID THAT ONE OUT OF TEN ISN'T ENOUGH TO DENY, MISREAD, OR MISREAD CITY COUNCIL'S OPINION OR DECISION, BECAUSE IN THE ORIGINAL DECISION IT SAID, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU KNOW THIS CONSIDERATION ALONG WITH THE OTHER ONES ABOVE, IS ENOUGH FOR DENIAL. AND SO THAT'S ANOTHER ANOTHER TIE IN WE COULD MAKE TO THE EXERCISE OF WHY CITY COUNCIL IS EXERCISING ITS DISCRETION UNDER THAT MAY. ONE OF THE REASONS IS STREETSCAPE, AND ANOTHER REASON IS THE DENSITY ISSUE. ARE THERE ANY ISSUES LIKE OTHER ISSUES LIKE THAT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE? WELL, THERE'S THE DEFINITION OF REDEVELOPMENT. THAT WAS MY NEXT ONE. SO SO DEFINITION. YEAH. SO IF WE WANT TO GET TO THAT, BUT ARE WE AS FAR AS WE SEE YOU HAVE YOUR MAY RIGHT. AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE SAYING TWO BASES FOR THE MAY. ONE IS JUST WELL, JUST CITY COUNCIL'S DECISION. SECOND IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S DISCRETIONARY. IT'S INFORMED BY THE PURPOSES OF THE STATUTE. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE STREETSCAPE AND THE DENSITY CONCERNS. AND THEN AND THEN AT THAT POINT, YOU GO INTO YOUR YOUR NEXT ALTERNATIVE, RIGHT? WHICH IS. EVEN IF THE COURT DISAGREES AND EVEN IF THE COURT SAYS. YOU KNOW, THIS MAY IS A SHALL, YOU SHALL CONSIDER IT IF IT'S UNDER OR IF IT'S REDEVELOPING OR PROVIDES PUBLIC BENEFITS OR PENALTY, THEN THIS IS WHY WE DO BELT AND SUSPENDERS, RIGHT? SO IT'S LIKE, EVEN IF WE STILL WIN, EVEN IF WE'RE WRONG HERE, WE STILL WIN, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO DO. AND SO YEAH, AS FAR AS REDEVELOPING. SO WHICH WOULD BE KIND OF LIKE THE THIRD THIRD LAYER, THE ORIGINAL REASON STATEMENT SAYS IT IS NOT WORTH IT. YEAH. IT FINDS IT AS NOT REDEVELOPING. IS THAT A IS THAT A CONCLUSION THAT THIS COUNCIL WANTS TO KEEP? AND IF SO, WE'LL NEED TO FIND FACTUAL FINDINGS THAT THAT'S A LEGAL CONCLUSION. AND I CAN PULL UP THE DEFINITION THERE. IF WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THE FACTUAL FINDINGS AND SEE IF THERE'S A BASIS, IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A LEGAL CONCLUSION, THERE HAS TO BE FACTUAL FINDINGS THAT SUPPORT THAT LEGAL CONCLUSION. WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT I. CAN PULL IT UP. DISCOUNTS WILL WANT TO CHANGE THAT. THE REDEVELOPING CONCLUSION OUT OF THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT. YEAH. NO, I DON'T WANT YOU DON'T WANT YOU JUST WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. DO YOU WANT TO MAKE FACTUAL FINDINGS TO SUPPORT IT? YEP. THE WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THE FACTUAL FINDING IS THAT ELEMENT OF DISCRETION THAT WE ARE COMMANDED TO TAKE IF IT'S UNDER TWO ACRES, AND THAT EVEN IF IT IS A REDEVELOPMENT WOULD FIT REDEVELOPING, IT DOESN'T MATTER. WE STILL HAVE THE BAY IN FRONT OF THAT. AND THAT GIVES US THE DISCRETION TO SAY, EVEN IF IT IS REDEVELOPING THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED DOESN'T WORK FOR THE COUNCIL. THAT'S THE ESSENCE OF IT. RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE FIRST THE BELT

[03:00:05]

CORRECT. BUT NOT IN THE SECOND REDEVELOPMENT, NOT IN THE SECOND READING STATEMENT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE ISSUE. SO YOU DON'T WANT IT INCLUDED IN THE SECOND ONE. YEAH. THAT IS JUST DEFENDING OUR DECISION, JIM. IF WE FIND OTHER FINDINGS OF FACT, THOUGH, THAT STRENGTHEN THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT REDEVELOPING, WOULD YOU WANT THOSE INCLUDED, I THINK IT'S AN ARGUMENT THAT WOULD I DON'T I GUESS WE COULD LOOK AT THAT IF YOU SEE IT. YOU SEE, I'D LIKE TO PRESENT SOME THINGS JUST FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT AND YOU. AND THEN YOU TELL ME, HEY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S HAS MERIT OR IT DOES. AND, COUNCILMEMBER LEE, CAN YOU SEND YOUR DOCUMENT TO THE. YES, I WILL, BECAUSE I THINK I WANT TO HEAR WHY YOU THINK IT WAS. IT'S NOT REDEVELOPING. WELL, I DON'T I GUESS I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHY YOU THINK IT IS DEVELOPING. BECAUSE IT WAS SUBDIVIDED. SO WHAT SUBDIVISION DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. YOU CAN SUBDIVIDE THINGS UNTIL YOU PUT INVESTMENT INTO SOMETHING AND HAVE DEVELOPED IT. ISN'T THAT WHAT THE CODE SAYS? THE CODE SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE A FLAT, IF IT'S IF IT'S BEEN SUBDIVIDED, THEN IT'S REDEVELOPING, THEN IT'S REDEVELOPING. THAT'S THE WAY I READ THE LAW. THAT WAS MY I GUESS I READ IT DIFFERENTLY. SO THERE ARE. I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE MEANINGFUL REINVESTMENT THAT YOU CAN NOT NOT JUST NOT JUST BUILDING ON A SMALL VACANT PARCEL DOESN'T MEAN SOMETHING IS THAT'S BEEN VACANT FOR 20 YEARS, IS NOW REDEVELOPING. I AGREE WITH THAT. IN TERMS OF REDEVELOPMENT WITH MY BROTHER'S AGENCY REDEVELOPMENT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE CODE. BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN A P, U, D UNDER TWO ACRES THAT DEMANDS, EVEN IF IT IS REDEVELOPING, THAT WE HAVE PROVEN IT. AND THAT GOES TO THE FIRST LAYER. RIGHT NOW. WE'VE WE'VE ADDRESSED THE FIRST TWO. NOW, HE DID SAY THAT DON'T DON'T ADDRESS THE OTHER BECAUSE IT CONTINUES TO JUST YOU DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH. AND THAT'S FINE IF YOU DON'T THINK I, I IN OUR NEXT ONE, I WOULDN'T SAY DEFINITION OF REDEVELOPMENT. I JUST LEAVE IT OUT BECAUSE. THAT'S NOT YOU'RE SAYING NOT SPEAK TO IT AGAIN NOT SPEAK TO IT. LEAVE IT OUT OF THIS REASON STATEMENT, THIS VERSION OF IT, TRYING TO DEFINE REDEVELOPMENT IN OUR DEFENSE OF OUR DECISION ON THURSDAY. YEAH, MY PLAN WOULD BE MY PROPOSITION JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE JUDGE. THE JUDGE IS GOING TO WANT A DOCUMENT SAYING, HERE ARE ALL THE FACTUAL FINDINGS, HERE ARE ALL THE LEGAL CONCLUSIONS. AND THEN THE JUDGE IS GOING TO SAY, DOES THIS DO THE LEGAL CONCLUSIONS FLOW FROM THE FACTUAL FINDINGS? AND SO I THINK IT'D BE A LOT EASIER FOR THE JUDGE IF IT'S IN ONE DOCUMENT, INSTEAD OF THE JUDGE HAVING TO BE LIKE, OKAY, I'M LOOKING AT THE ORIGINAL ONE. WHAT'S BEEN SUPERSEDED BY THE SECOND ONE, IT'S MUCH BETTER TO JUST PUT A SECOND ONE OUT THERE. THAT'S A REASONED DECISION THAT INCORPORATES ALL THE ADDITIONAL PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND AND KIND OF REVISES ITSELF AGAIN TO SHORE IT UP AS, AS NEEDED. OR IF CITY COUNCIL DECIDES, HEY, THAT'S NOT IT, IT COULD BE IN CITY COUNCIL'S DETERMINATION, IT'S NO LONGER NEEDED TO SAY IT'S NOT REDEVELOPING. YOU COULD JUST SAY, WE DON'T NEED THAT PART BECAUSE WE'RE CONFIDENT ABOUT THE DISCRETIONARY ASPECT. AND SO WE WOULD JUST WE WOULD JUST REMOVE IT FROM THE CONCLUSION OF LAW, BUT I WOULDN'T. COUNCILOR LEON COUNCIL, IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE HOPING FOR AS WELL, IS THAT WE JUST WOULD REMOVE IT BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED THAT PART. WE CAN WE CAN REMOVE IT OR NOT REMOVE IT, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ARGUMENT STANDS ON. THE ARGUMENT STANDS ON THE MAKE.

YES. OKAY. AND THEN IN. OKAY. SO, AND I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT I'LL SAY IT PUBLICLY. THE REAL AUDIENCE FOR WHAT WE SAY HERE IS THE DEVELOPER. I'M NOT. AND THE COURT AND THE COURT MAY BE PART OF IT, BUT I'M JUST HOPING THE DEVELOPER SAYS, OKAY, I GET THE DOORS OPEN FOR THE NEXT STEP. AND THEN THAT WOULD ALSO, IN A SIMILAR VEIN, DO YOU WANT TO KEEP THE DISCUSSION ABOUT IT BEING A SUFFICIENT PUBLIC BENEFIT OR AMENITY? IF WE'RE LOGICALLY IF WE IF WE SAY WE DON'T NEED TO GET INTO THE REDEVELOPING, THE SAME LOGIC WOULD APPLY TO THE SUFFICIENT PUBLIC BENEFIT. IS IT ALSO BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED AS MANY. BECAUSE IF YOU IF YOU HAVE ONE ARGUMENT AND YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS THE ARGUMENT, THEN THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THAT COVERS ALL OF IT, RIGHT? YEAH. BECAUSE THE DISCRETIONARY. YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE NOT LOOKING PAST THE MEH

[03:05:02]

I THINK WE LEAVE IT IN. SO YEAH. NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP STARTS. OKAY. DO WE HAVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AND THEN YOU WERE GOOD WITH THE IDEA FOR THE EXERCISE OF DISCRETION TO KIND OF INCORPORATE THE, AS WE DID IN THE ORIGINAL DECISION TO INCORPORATE THE STREETSCAPE INTO THAT. DID YOU WANT TO ADD ANY OTHER BASES FOR THE EXERCISE OF DISCRETION THAT MAY.

POTENTIAL IDEAS WERE. LET'S SEE. I HAVE NOTES FROM. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A QUOTE FROM WHAT I LEARNED FROM OUR CITY ATTORNEY. TELL ME IF I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT. WHEN A WORD IS NOT DEFINED IN CITY CODE, IT HAS THE GENERAL MEANING. YES, AS THE PLAINTIFF, IF IT'S NOT DEFINED. DISCRETION IS NOT A WORD DEFINED IN CITY CODE. THEREFORE, THE DEFINITION FALLS TO COMMON SENSE. USE COMMON USE AS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD. THAT IS POWER AND RESPONSIBILITY TO DECIDE WHAT'S TO BE DONE IN A PARTICULAR SITUATION. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID. LOVE YOUR QUOTE. WELL, THAT WASN'T ALL ME. I THINK THE PART ABOUT NO, THAT WASN'T ALL YOU. I KNOW THAT, BUT THE PART ABOUT GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD I GOT FROM YOU. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. SO, MR. JONES, HOW HOW WHAT IS THE PLAN TO PROCEED HERE? I'LL DRAFT AND THE NEXT WORK SESSION. MAKE A NOTE OF THAT. SO WHAT CAN WE TALK ABOUT AND WHAT CAN'T WE TALK ABOUT? CAN CAN I TALK TO JIM? CAN I TALK TO YOU? CAN TALK AS LONG AGAIN, FOLLOWING THE PUBLIC MEETINGS RULES. YOU CAN YOU CAN TALK WITH AMONGST YOURSELVES BECAUSE WE'RE NOT CAUSING YOU KNOW, YOU ARE QUASI JUDICIAL.

SO THEY'RE KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF RULES HERE, RIGHT? ONE IS THE PUBLIC MEETINGS VIOLATION, RIGHT? YOU CANNOT HAVE THE OTHER, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, IDAHO ATTORNEY GENERAL GENERAL RULES, RIGHT? SO YOU CAN'T IF YOU HAVE ANY SORT OF DISCUSSION COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. OKAY. CAN'T, CAN'T BE MORE THAN THREE OF YOU AT A TIME. AND YOU CAN'T TRY TO MAKE A CHANGE. YEAH. AND THEN AS FAR AS THE QUASI JUDICIAL, ALL THAT PROHIBITS FROM YOU HAVING EX PARTE CONTACT. SO YOU CAN'T. YEAH. EX PARTE MEANS WITHOUT A PARTY.

RIGHT. SO SO HERE THE PARTIES ARE THE APPLICANT AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD CITIZENS THAT WERE THERE, THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE, THE POTENTIALLY RIGHT. IF THEY COULD QUALIFY AS AN AFFECTED PERSON TO APPEAL IF IT WENT THE OTHER DIRECTION, RIGHT? THOSE ARE THE PARTIES. SO IF ANY CITIZEN REACHES OUT TO YOU, YOU STILL HAVE TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS STILL BEING CONSIDERED BECAUSE THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING IF THERE'S MEDIATION, RIGHT? AND THAT, HEY, I CAN'T TALK WITH YOU BECAUSE IT'S STILL BEING LITIGATED, IT'S STILL FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, AND I CAN'T TALK TO YOU. YOU CAN TALK WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT A PARTY.

THEY'RE NOT A PARTY TO THE TO THE MATTER BECAUSE THE APPLICANT AND THE RESIDENT. YES, YOU ARE THE DECISION MAKERS, RIGHT? IT'S THE SAME LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE A PANEL OF JUDGES, THEY CAN ALL TALK WITH EACH OTHER. IT'S NOT. THESE JUDGES HAVE THE SAME EX PARTE REQUIREMENTS. THOSE THREE JUDGES CAN COUNSEL AND CONFER TOGETHER, AND THAT'S TOTALLY APPROPRIATE AND EXPECTED. SO I CAN TALK TO BRANDON, BUT I SHOULDN'T TALK TO BRANDON AND JIM. NO, YOU CAN TALK. I MEAN, I COULD SEPARATELY, BUT NOT TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE MORE THAN THREE YOU CAN HAVE. SO THREE CAN CHAT. ONCE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT. THAT'S NEW.

YEAH. WE USED TO ALWAYS HAVE A MORE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH. YEAH. IT WAS JUST THIS THIS IS LEGIT. WE'VE BEEN DEBATING THAT FOR EIGHT YEARS. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. THAT WAS ALWAYS ON YOUR SIDE IS THAT THIS WILL COME TO THE WORK SESSION MONDAY THE 20TH. WE WILL HAVE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. IT'S DRAFT VERSION. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE MR. JONES. YES.

YOU HAD MENTIONED SEVEN DAYS FOR THE DEVELOPER TO ASK FOR MEDIATION. YES. WHICH SEVEN

[03:10:02]

THAT'S THE WRITTEN DECISION DISTRIBUTED FROM APRIL 23RD. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH.

OKAY. SO ONCE WE COME TO A DETERMINATION, DOES THE COUNCIL VOTE ON THAT VERSION OF THE DOCUMENT? DO THEY SAY IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE HAVE A32 DECISION. YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO AS YOU WOULD. YOU DIDN'T PARTICIPATE. THAT WAS MY QUESTION. I WOULDN'T BE INVOLVED IN THAT VOTE BECAUSE OKAY, NO, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ALL THREE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO WERE IN THE MAJORITY TO APPROVE IT, BECAUSE YOU WERE THE THREE THAT VOTED TO CONTINUE TO DENY IT. AND SO IT HAD TO HAVE ALL THREE OF YOU IF IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE, IF THERE'S A DISAGREEMENT AND ALL THREE DIDN'T, BECAUSE NOW YOU DON'T HAVE A MAJORITY OF THE FIVE WHO HEARD IT. SO IT HAS TO BE ALL THREE OF YOU TO AGREE TO IT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. BUT IF THERE'S ANOTHER HEARING, THEN, OH, ABSOLUTELY. IF THERE'S A MEDIATION HEARING, THEN EVERYBODY. YEAH. THEN WHOEVER HAPPENS TO BE THERE FOR THAT MEETING. JUST REAL QUICK, DO YOU WANT ME TO ADD, I KNOW IN YOUR IN YOUR DOCUMENT YOU HAD ADDITIONAL BASES TO ADD. DO YOU WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH THOSE? THOSE WERE WELL, I THINK MAYBE THE THREE OF US COULD BETTER QUICKLY TALK ABOUT. DO YOU WANT TO ADD TO OUR RECENT STATEMENT SOME DEFENSE OF WHY WE THINK IT'S RESOLVABLE? WELL, YEAH, NOT QUITE THERE YET TO THAT TO THAT SECTION DO YOU WANT AS FAR AS REASONS FOR EXERCISING DISCRETION, ARE YOU GOOD WITH GOING JUST. THE IDEA THAT IT'S INCREASED DENSITY AND STREETSCAPE OR DO YOU WANT TO ADD ADDITIONAL BASES FOR EXERCISING DISCRETION. YOU HAD INDICATED SOME IN YOUR DOCUMENT TO ME ABOUT. NOT BEING SUITABLY LOCATED, OR THE PUBLIC FACILITIES NOT BEING SUITABLY LOCATED AND NOT CONNECTED TO SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS. DO YOU WANT TO PURSUE THOSE? OR SO I NEED TO MAKE FACTUAL FINDINGS FOR THE OR LOOK TO LOOK TO SEE IF I CAN FIND FACTUAL FINDINGS OR IF WE'RE GOOD WITH JUST THE TWO THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HERE TODAY. I THOUGHT THAT DID FIT UNDER THE ARGUMENT THAT IT WAS. IF IT'S UNDER TWO ACRES, IT HAS SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND ONE OF THEM IS THE WORD PUBLIC AMENITY CHANGES ITS MEANING. SO I DID PUT THAT IN THERE. AND IS THAT MORE DISTINCT THAN THE. OR IS THAT. WELL, THAT WOULD WOULD THAT GO TO THE EXPLANATION OF WHY IT'S NOT A SUFFICIENT PUBLIC AMENITY ALSO. SO I MISUNDERSTOOD. SO THAT'S WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. YES. GOOD WITH THAT. IT HAS TO BE BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENT DEFINITION, BUT COMMON VERSUS PUBLIC. OKAY. THAT'S THAT COMMON VERSUS PUBLIC AMENITY PIECE. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. GOTCHA. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN. FOR MEDIATION, BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SAY AT THE END, HEY, WE INVITE MEDIATION UNDER THE CODE SECTION WITH THE APPLICANTS, RIGHT? IF THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO INVITE FOR MEDIATION IN SEVEN DAYS FROM THIS ISSUE. AND SO THIS DECISION TOPICS FOR WHAT. AND AND I WOULD RECOMMEND JUST MAKING IT PRETTY BROAD, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF WE'RE INVITING AT THE TABLE, WE DON'T WANT TO COME AT THEM WITH LIKE, THIS IS SPECIFIC, EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT, BUT HERE ARE TOPICS OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO CONSIDER AND BE READY TO TALK ABOUT AT A, AT A POTENTIAL MEDIATION. SOME OF THOSE WERE THAT I UNDERSTAND FROM COUNCIL PRESIDENT FRANCIS OR PRIVACY. THE STREETSCAPE AND PARKING, PLACEMENT OF PUBLIC AMENITY, CONNECTION TO SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND PUBLIC LANDS AND BELL AND ROAD. I WASN'T SURE WHAT THE BELT AND ROAD. I THINK THE DEVELOPER OFFERED THE DEVELOPMENT OF A BELT AND ROAD, BUT YOU CAN TAKE THAT ON. YEAH, I WASN'T SURE. I THINK THEY HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY, RIGHT? YES. THE SO ARE THOSE TOPICS GOOD FOR TOPICS FOR MEDIATION? DO YOU WANT TO. AS LONG AS IT SAYS EXAMPLES OR SOMETHING NOT LIMITED TO THOSE, THEN WE COULD COME BACK TO THAT. I WOULD ADD DENSITY, REDUCE DENSITY. OKAY. AS A, AS AN EXAMPLE. YEAH, THAT'S A POTENTIAL CONCESSION, RIGHT? FOR POTENTIAL FOR THE CONVERSATION. MY SUGGESTION TO THAT, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. COUNCIL, WE DO HAVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. IT SHOULD BE. THE THE FINALS TO

[03:15:06]

[Executive Session]

CONSIDERED LABOR CONTRACT MATTERS AUTHORIZED UNDER THE SECTION 74206A1. A COUNCIL WILL NOT RECONVENE AFTER. COUNCIL MEMBERS. I UNDERSTOOD THAT. I. FREEMAN. YES. EAMON. YES.

LARSEN. YES.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.