[Call to Order and Roll Call]
[00:00:11]
TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING. WELCOME TO A BRAND NEW YEAR. I HOPE EVERYBODY HAD A HAPPY NEW YEAR. WE ARE GOING TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, AND WE'LL ASK OUR CITY CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL COUNCIL PRESIDENT BURTENSHAW HERE, COUNCILOR RADFORD. I WILL MARK HIM AS ABSENT FOR NOW.
COUNCILOR DINGMAN HERE, COUNCILOR FREEMAN HERE, COUNCILOR FRANCIS HERE.
COUNCILOR LARSON HERE. MAYOR, YOU HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. THE MESSAGE THAT WE RECEIVED WAS THAT COUNCILOR RADFORD HAD A MEETING THAT WAS SCHEDULED TO GO TILL THREE, AND HE WOULD BE
[City Attorney, Municipal Services, Community Development Services, Public Works]
HERE AS SOON AS HE COULD. ALL RIGHT, SO WITH THAT, THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS A TEAM EFFORT AND DISCUSSION THAT IS COMING TO US FOLLOWING THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING THAT WE HAD ON DECEMBER 18TH. AS YOU'LL RECALL, WE HAD A HEARING. AND AS A PART OF THAT HEARING, A DECISION WAS MADE AND WE HAD DETERMINED THAT WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS ADOPT A RECENT STATEMENT OF MATERIAL STANDARDS SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE A VERY CLEAN RECORD FOR THAT DECISION. SHOULD A CLEAN RECORD OF THE DECISION BE NEEDED IN THE FUTURE. AND SO WITH THAT, OUR CITY ATTORNEY WAS INVOLVED, PAM, AS THE IMPACT THE ADMINISTRATOR WAS INVOLVED. AND WADE STARNER, A DIRECTOR AND. I'M FORGETTING. BRIAN. THERE WE GO. MR. CUNNINGHAM, FORGIVE ME. I KEPT THINKING OF NAMES OF ENGINEERS THAT WERE IN ANOTHER PART OF THE CITY. WASN'T YOUR NAME? AND I KNEW IT ALL RIGHT. ANYWAY, FLY UNDER THE RADAR. WELL, PAM, WHOEVER'S GOING TO BE TALKING SHOULD PROBABLY COME TO THE TABLE. ZACH. WADE, ANYBODY WHO'S GOING TO BE WEIGHING IN.AND, MR. CUNNINGHAM, IF YOU'RE A PART OF THAT, JUST COME ON UP AND WE'LL. HAVE YOU GET STARTED SHARING WITH US. SO I BELIEVE ZACH IS GOING TO CLEAN OR COPY OF THE LATEST AND PUT THAT IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY. AND SO THIS IS WHAT WE'LL BE WORKING FROM. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, THE THE COPY THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU. THE ONLY CHANGE THAT I RECALL MAKING IS CHANGED IT FROM CITY COUNCIL SIGNING INDIVIDUALLY TO JUST THE MAYOR SIGNING ON BEHALF AFTER BEING AUTHORIZED BY CITY COUNCIL VOTING. OTHERWISE THE BODY OF THE SUBSTANCE REMAINS THE SAME.
OKAY. VERY GOOD. I DON'T KNOW IF COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO STUDY IT. IT CAME OUT, WHAT, JUST A FEW DAYS AGO. AND SO WOULD ANY OF YOU LIKE TO TAKE A STAB AT SUMMARIZING WHERE WE ARE? YES. DO YOU WANT TO? THIS IS YOURS. THIS IS YOUR DECISION TO GO TO BURN. OKAY.
WELL THANK YOU. SO THIS ACTUALLY DOCUMENTS THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE CITY'S IMPACT FEE ADMINISTRATOR IN REGARDS TO THE DEVELOPMENT, THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS HELD ON DECEMBER 18TH. OUR CITY ATTORNEY, ZACH, HAS DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB OF PULLING ALL THE PIECES TOGETHER OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN THAT EVENING. IT WAS A RELATIVELY LONG SESSION THURSDAY EVENING, THE 18TH. AND SO THIS DOCUMENT THAT YOU SEE IS THE COUNCIL DIRECTION TO STAFF THAT WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE RECEIVED ON DECEMBER 18TH AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE PUBLIC HEARING. IT SUMMARIZES ALL THE ELEMENTS THAT WERE DISCUSSED BETWEEN CITY STAFF AND THE DEVELOPER. OKAY. AND SO. COUNCIL MEMBERS. DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS THEN ABOUT WHAT IT SUMMARIZES? COUNCILOR FRANCIS, I DO HAVE A QUESTION. THE THE BIGGEST I HAVE SOME DETAIL ONES, BUT THE BIGGEST ONE IS THERE'S NO REFERENCE TO THE DENIAL OF THE RIGHT OF WAY REQUEST THAT WAS IN THE LETTER THAT DIRECTOR ALEXANDER WROTE TO THEM AT THE LAST PARAGRAPH. IT WAS A MAJOR POINT IN THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE THEY WANTED IMPACT FEE CREDIT FOR THEIR RIGHT OF WAY GIVING.
DOESN'T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR, OR IS IT JUST DREAMING? NO. I'M THERE. AND THE WAY THE MOTION WAS SAID, WE DELIBERATELY UPHELD THE LETTER THAT DIRECTOR ALEXANDER WROTE. SO IF THIS IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT GOING FORWARD, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE UPHELD, IS THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMPACT FEES. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT'S NOT IN THIS PART, BUT IT'S IN THE MOTION. DOES THAT DOES NUMBER TEN ANSWER THAT TO UP TO VOTED TO AFFIRM THE DECISION. YEAH. WE THE I THINK THE WAY THE MOTION READS READ UPHOLD THE TERMS OF THE LETTER FROM THE IMPACT FEE ADMINISTRATOR ISSUED ON NOVEMBER 6TH, 2025, WHICH
[00:05:05]
UPHELD EVERY ELEMENT THAT YOU READ INTO THAT THERE'S NO REFERENCE IN THIS DOCUMENT TO THE RIGHT OF WAY DENIAL, WHICH IS THE LAST. IT'S NEAR THE END OF YOUR LETTER, LIKE AT THE END OF THE SECOND OR THIRD PAGE. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S ESSENTIAL. YEAH. THE WAY I WAY I VIEW THAT IS THAT IS PART OF THEIR SO THAT THEY HAD A LOT OF THINGS, A NUMBER OF ITEMS IN THEIR REQUEST FOR THE IMPACT CREDIT. AND BECAUSE THE DENIAL IS THAT WERE THE DECISION WAS TO AFFIRM THE IMPACT, THE ADMINISTRATOR'S DECISION BASED ON A PROCEDURAL BASIS, THAT THEY FAILED TO ENTER INTO A WRITTEN AGREEMENT, AND THAT MAKES IT SO THEY CAN'T GET ANY IMPACT FEE CREDIT FOR ANY OF THE ITEMS THAT THEY REQUESTED. RIGHT. AND SO AND SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DELINEATE I MEAN, WE CAN IF YOU WANT TO, BUT BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME BASIS TO DENY THE FEE CREDIT REQUEST, WHETHER IT'S FOR THE WORK FOR EXPANDING OR THE RIGHT OF WAY DEDICATION. SO I KEPT IT BROAD BECAUSE THIS IS THEIR REQUEST. WE DENIED IT BECAUSE OF PROCEDURAL REASON AND JUST LEFT IT AT THAT. YEAH, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. IT'S JUST I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COVERED IN CASE SOMEBODY SAYS WE'RE GOING TO A JUDGE. RIGHT. SO ANYWAY, THAT'S ONE THING THAT I DIDN'T SEE IN THERE SPECIFICALLY. THEN THERE'S JUST A COUPLE OF POINTS THAT I WASN'T SURE IF ADDING SOME WORDS WOULD MAKE IT STRONGER. SO ON THE FIRST PAGE AT THE BOTTOM, IT SAYS THE CITY AGREED TO PAY FOR THE COST, PROVIDED THAT THE APPELLANT MEETS CERTAIN CONDITIONS, INCLUDING OBTAINING AND DELIVERING. AND THEN A QUOTE FROM THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT SHOULD IT ALSO SAY, INCLUDING OBTAINING AND DELIVERING BEFORE CONSTRUCTION TO THE CITY, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S REFERENCED LATER, BECAUSE THAT'S THE KEY, RIGHT? AND THAT'S IN THE NEXT SENTENCE. SO IT'S COVERED THAT WAY. YEAH. I'M JUST YEAH. I'M JUST CHECKING TO MAKE SURE. ORIGINALLY THOUGHT I THOUGHT I WAS HAVING TO SIGN THIS. SO I WANTED TO MAKE MEMBER FRANCIS, DO YOU FEEL LIKE PAGE FOUR AT THE VERY LAST WEEK ON FIVE.CONSEQUENTLY, APPELLANT IS NOT ENTITLED TO A CREDIT OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR THE WORK OR THE VALUE OF THE DEDICATED, OF THE RIGHT OF WAY TO EXPAND SKYLINE DRIVE. YEAH, OKAY, I GET THAT. IS THAT THE. YEAH YEAH YEAH OKAY. AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER ONE I HAD WAS I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THIS, BUT ON PAGE TWO, NUMBER SIX. YOU SAID THE APPELLANT APPLIED FOR AN IMPACT FEE CREDIT OR REIMBURSEMENT. AND IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THE REQUEST FOR CREDIT WAS FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS THAT THEY'RE INVOLVED IN. SO DOES IT HAVE SHOULD IT BE APPELLANT APPLIED FOR AN IMPACT FEE CREDIT GOING FORWARD NOT GOING BACK TO ANYTHING THEY ALREADY PAID, BECAUSE THAT WAS AN ISSUE THAT CAME UP IN THE IS THAT. YEAH.
OKAY. SO THE THE ORIGINAL LETTER THAT WAS RECEIVED ON OCTOBER 15TH, IT WAS WORDED IN TWO WAYS. IT SAID CREDIT FOR A REIMBURSEMENT AT THE CHOOSING OF THE DEVELOPER, SO THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY STATED IN THEIR ORIGINAL LETTER. SO I THINK WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP THE TERMINOLOGY SIMILAR. SO AM I UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THAT IF A DEVELOPER GETS CREDIT TRYING TO THINK BACK TO WHEN WE ORIGINALLY DID THE IMPACT REBATE, THAT THAT CREDIT IS ON FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, NOT GOING BACKWARD TO WHAT THEY ALREADY DID. IT WOULD BE A CREDIT ON FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IF THEY'VE ALREADY PAID THEIR IMPACT FEES WITHOUT PROTEST. RIGHT. SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT WOULD BE A CREDIT FOR FUTURE, A FUTURE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE THAT WAS GRANTED BY THE IMPACT FEE ADMINISTRATOR. SO WE GOT THAT ONE. BUT IF THEY WERE ASKING FOR THE CREDIT FOR WHAT THEY DID ON SKYLINE, INSTEAD OF GETTING A REIMBURSEMENT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE CHOICE, IT COULD GO EITHER WAY, RIGHT? THAT CREDIT WOULD BE ON THEIR ONGOING DEVELOPMENT. IT DOESN'T GO BACK TO WHAT THEY'VE ALREADY PAID. WHAT I BELIEVE WE DID WITH THE WORK THAT THEY DID, THEY PRODUCED THE THREE QUOTES THE EVENING OF THE 18TH OF DECEMBER, AND WE WE RECOMMENDED THAT THE INFORMAL SOLUTION WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD USE THOSE THREE QUOTES THAT WAS PROVIDED TO SATISFY THE TERMS OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT WAS SIGNED BACK IN JANUARY OF 2024. IS THAT CORRECT? CITY ATTORNEY? WELL, I THINK I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS, IS THE CREDIT FOR THAT? IS IT IS IT CREDIT FOR THE IMPACT FEES OR THE TERRORIST GATE DEVELOPMENT, OR INSTEAD, IS IT A CREDIT FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT? I THINK
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THAT'S WHAT HE WAS ASKING. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. AND IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THEY WERE NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING ON THE CREDITS. THEY'VE ALREADY PAID. THEIR REQUEST WAS AS THEY DEVELOPED FURTHER IN THE CITY, THEY WOULD LIKE TO CARRY THOSE CREDITS FORWARD. THAT'S IT.YEAH. AND SO THE REIMBURSEMENT WOULD BE, HEY, PAY US BACK FOR WHAT WE DID. CREDIT WOULD BE, YEAH, GOING FORWARD WE HAVE THIS CREDIT. SO IF WE DO ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT THEN WE HAVE RIGHT. WE COULD TAKE THAT CREDIT. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT CORRECT. IT'S LIKE IF THEY HAD SUCCEEDED GOTTEN A DEVELOPMENT OR THEY'VE GOTTEN CREDIT FOR MORE THAN THE SINGLE USE EXEMPTION THEY COULD THEN IN THE NEXT DEVELOPMENT SAY, HEY, WILL THE SUPPLIER CREDIT THAT THAT IS CORRECT. YEAH. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS REFERENCE IS. SO IF IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE IT'S FINE. IT SAYS IMPACT FEE CREDIT GOING FORWARD OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PAYING THEM OR USING ANYTHING THAT THEY ALREADY PAID TO GIVE THEM MONEY BACK. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES SENSE. THAT WOULD BE THE REIMBURSEMENT OR REIMBURSEMENT, RIGHT. DIFFERENT THAN CORRECT. YEAH. AND AND I WILL SAY THOUGH THAT WHEN IN PREPARATION FOR THE DECEMBER 18TH APPEAL HEARING, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PERMITS THAT ARE SITTING IN THE UNDER REVIEW CATEGORY FOR THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT. SO THERE WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREDIT TOWARDS A FUTURE, ONE OF THOSE FUTURE PERMIT FEES THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE ONCE THE DEVELOPER IS READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH REQUESTING THE PERMIT, AND THEY STILL HAVE THAT OPTION FOR REIMBURSEMENT OR CREDIT, DEPENDING ON WHAT'S WORKED OUT INFORMALLY, THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. IT WOULD BE CORRECT. OKAY. ALL OTHER QUESTIONS. ANY OTHER PRESENTATION? I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT JUST ONE OF THE WORDS ZACH ON TOP OF PAGE FIVE SECOND OR THE FIRST FULL SENTENCE, RECOGNIZING THAT HEWING TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW CAN LEAD AT TIMES TO AN UNEQUITABLE. ANYWAY, I'M WONDERING IF THAT SHOULD BE NOT THAT SHOULD BE HEWING SEEMS A LITTLE BIT LIKE A TERM OF ART, AND IT'S TYPICALLY IT'S A WOODWORKING TERM. AND SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IF THERE'S A SIMPLER WORD OR A MORE COMMON WORD THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO SAY ADHERING. ANYWAY, THERE'S THAT AND THEN TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE IN MEANING BETWEEN UNEQUITABLE AND INEQUITABLE. I DON'T I'M NOT SURE IF THE I JUST AS A MATTER OF INEQUITABLE AND MEAN IT'S NOT EQUITABLE AND INEQUITABLE MEAN IT'S NOT HASN'T HASN'T BECOME EQUITABLE. IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAD AND NOT GOOD. RIGHT. SO I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE IT INEQUITABLE. I, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THERE WAS A WHEN TO USE. YEAH. ANYWAY. OKAY. I'M. I'M GOOD. WOULD YOU LIKE TO CHANGE? IT'S NOT MY DOCUMENT, COUNSEL. IF YOU WANT A SIMPLER WORD IN THERE, THEN YOU CAN. OTHERWISE, I WAS JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD. IT WAS FUN. YEAH. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT, JIM. I'M FINE. UNEQUITABLE. IT'S FINE. OKAY. NO QUEUING. QUEUING. OH, THE TWO DIFFERENT. YEAH. I DIDN'T FIND IT CONFUSING. SO THE ALTERNATE MAYOR WOULD BE, LIKE HOLDING OR ADHERING OR ABIDING BY OR SOMETHING STICKING TO YOU. YOU WANT TO BE REALLY CLOSE.
WELL, THE REASON THIS COMES TO MIND AND AND THAT IS THAT SOMETIMES HAVING LEGAL LEGALESE CAN MAKE A DOCUMENT HARDER FOR SOMEONE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE READING. AS A LAYPERSON, ONE OF THE AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE THING TO SAY, BUT ONE OF THE SIDE CONVERSATIONS THAT I WAS I HEARD AFTER THE MEETING WAS THAT THE APPELLANTS DID NOT REALIZE THAT THEIR, AFTER READING THE LETTER, DID NOT REALIZE THAT THEY HAD THE OPTION OF AN INFORMAL RESOLUTION. THEY READ IT PERHAPS HASTILY, OR OR READ IT AS A LEGAL DOCUMENT, TO THE POINT WHERE THEY FELT LIKE THEY THEY WERE BEING TOLD, NO, WE HAVE TO HAVE TO APPEAL. AND SO THAT COMMUNICATES TO ME THAT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT CITY COMMUNICATIONS ARE AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE. AND SO WHETHER IT'S USING A LEGAL TERM OR JUST HAVING A HARD TO READ DOCUMENT, WE PROBABLY WANT TO WORK ON THAT. AND JUST TO TAG ON TO THAT, AND WE'RE GOING TO MAYBE TOUCH UP ON THIS ON THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. BUT UNFORTUNATELY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE THE WAY THE DOCUMENT WAS
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SUBMITTED TO THE CITY, IT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE CITY TO THE IMPACT FEE ADMINISTRATOR, WHICH PER THE ORDINANCE IN THE CHAPTERS OF THE ORDINANCE, THE PROCESS THAT WAS FOLLOWED WAS BASED ON THE ORDINANCE. WE WE TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF LIBERTY, IF YOU WILL, TO SUGGEST AN INFORMAL, INFORMAL WHICH THE DEVELOPER OPTED NOT TO PURSUE, THAT THERE WAS NEVER ANY. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS IN IT WAS THE LETTER. IN THE LETTER. SO THEY KNEW THAT THAT WAS AN INFORMAL OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM. AND THEY ALSO WE ALSO INCLUDED BRIAN CUNNINGHAM'S INFORMATION AS WELL, THAT THEY COULD CONTACT HIM TO TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. THAT WAS NOT OPTED AS AN OPPORTUNITY. AND SO UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD TO FOLLOW THE THE ORDINANCE AS IT WAS. AND THEN THAT TRIGGERED THAT 45 DAY APPEAL HEARING REQUIREMENT. AND WHAT I'M SAYING IS, THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT THEY HAD THE OPTION TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AND HAVE AN INFORMAL RESOLUTION. THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE BEING TOLD THAT THIS WAS THE HEARING OR OR THAT'S ALL THEY THOUGHT HEARING WAS THEIR ONLY OPTION OR AN APPEAL OF A DECISION WAS THEIR ONLY OPTION. SO I THINK THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING, IS THAT WE WANT THEM. WE WANT IF WE'RE OFFERING SOMETHING, AN EASY BUTTON, WE WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR LANGUAGE IS NEVER INTIMIDATING.THAT WAS MY ONLY POINT. SO COUNCILOR CREAMER, I WASN'T HERE FOR THE HEARING. I WAS SITTING AND LISTENING. SO MY MY TAKE ON IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT IT SEEMED I MEAN, AFTER AFTER READING THIS DOCUMENT, IT SEEMS TO ME IT WAS NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT EVENING WHEN I WAS TUNING IN THAT THAT THE EFFORTS THAT WE HAD ACTUALLY MADE TO, TO THE, TO THEM TO MITIGATE THEIR EXPENSES, BASICALLY, RIGHT, TO GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR. I ALSO WANTED TO BRING UP THE FACT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT PAYING IMPACT FEES AND UNDER IS IT AN OBJECTION OR OR PROTEST? AND YOU GUYS HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT EVERYBODY WOULD PAY UNDER PROTEST, RIGHT? IT WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO PAY UNDER PROTEST. AND THAT KIND OF STUCK WITH ME WITH THAT.
CAN WE DISCUSS THAT A LITTLE BIT, OR IS THAT IS THAT KIND OF LAID TO REST THAT IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS THAT, WE'D HAVE TO DISCUSS THAT IN A DIFFERENT MEETING? THIS IS THIS IS MORE TALKING ABOUT THE REASON STATEMENT. OKAY. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MORE OF A POLICY CHANGE TO WHETHER WE WANT TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO PAY UNDER PROTEST OR NOT. AND A POTENTIAL CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE. OKAY. SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT WE DIDN'T OPEN A CAN OF WORMS THERE, OR, I MEAN, IS IT IS IT IS THAT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OF THIS HEARING? NO, I DON'T I DON'T EXPECT THAT THAT THAT IS ALWAYS AN OPTION. BUT I DON'T EXPECT IT BECAUSE WE DO NOW THAT WE'VE HAD IMPACT FEES FOR, WHAT, THREE, THREE AND A HALF YEARS OR SO. A LOT OF THE DEVELOPERS ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS, SO WE DON'T GET AS MANY OF THOSE. OKAY, ACTUALLY, QUITE FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD A IMPACT YET. I DON'T WANT TO JINX IT HERE, BUT IMPACT FEE PROTESTS FOR PROBABLY CLOSE TO TWO YEARS. OKAY, SO THAT'S BEEN AND THAT SPEAKS A LOT TO STAFF OVER IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WHERE THEY HELP PROVIDE THE INFORMATION TO THE DEVELOPER UPFRONT. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I GET CONCERNED ABOUT IS, IS PROVIDING AN INFORMAL CONVERSATION. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE MISUNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BE HELPFUL. AND THEN THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A HEARING WHERE THEY SAID THAT SO AND SO SAID THIS AND THAT, AND THE OTHER THING, AND THAT REALLY WASN'T THE INTENT OF THAT PARTICULAR CONVERSATION. THE CONVERSATION IS MAINLY TO HELP NAVIGATE THE DEVELOPERS THROUGH OUR PROCESS BASED ON THE ORDINANCE. SO IF THAT KIND OF HELP ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. YES. I GUESS I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT WAS KIND OF CONCERNING. THANK YOU. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT FITS. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN ON PAGE TWO OF TEN. IT WAS VERY TOP, BONA FIDE BIDS. I MEAN, THE PROCUREMENT PROCESS IS IS VAST. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY BONAFIDE BIDS HERE? OR IS THAT A LEGAL TERM THAT YOU'RE BUYING IS WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS. IT STARTS ON PAGE ONE WHICH JUST MEANS GOOD FAITH. AND GOOD FAITH MEANS THREE. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY DIDN'T TALK TO THEM? WELL, WHAT IT MEANS IS YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING LIKE
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THIS. HEY, I WOULD LIKE A BUDDY. I'D LIKE A REALLY GOOD QUOTE THAT GIVES ME A LOT OF IMPACT FEE CREDIT. CAN YOU JUST QUOTE ME A REALLY HIGH BID AND THEN WE'LL SUBMIT IT TO THE CITY? THAT'S NOT A GOOD FAITH BID. WE WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY BIDDING, TRYING TO GET THE WORK.AND SO IT'S A GOOD FAITH BID INSTEAD OF SOMETHING THAT'S A BAD FAITH. AND YOU'RE FINE WITH THAT TERM. THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. OH, YEAH. BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS US, IF WE SUSPECT THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME SORT OF BAD FAITH, WE CAN SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT ALLOWS BRIAN CUNNINGHAM TO SAY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD FAITH BID. YEAH, OKAY. ACTUALLY, IT'S A QUOTE ANYWAY. WE'RE JUST QUOTING WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN OUR DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. OKAY.
OTHER THOUGHTS? OKAY. THEN THIS WILL APPEAR ON THE AGENDA ON THURSDAY EVENING AS SOMETHING FOR YOU TO APPROVE. AND SO IF YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT IT REFLECTS THE DECISION THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE, AND IT DOES SO IN A WAY THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH, THEN WE CAN CONSIDER THIS CONVERSATION. THEN OBVIOUSLY ON THURSDAY YOU CAN DEBATE IT, TALK ABOUT IT.
JUST TO CLARIFY, WERE THERE ANY CHANGES THAT YOU WANTED US TO MAKE? NO. OKAY. DO YOU WANT.
YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. VERY GOOD. WELL THEN THANK YOU. THE NEXT ITEM IS THE SAME GROUP. AND SO
[Municipal Services, City Attorney, Community Development Services, Public Works]
THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT IMPACT. IMPACT CAN'T EVEN TALK IMPACT FEE CREDIT VERSUS IN WITHIN DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS. AND SO IS THIS GOING TO BE A LITTLE MORE OF A TEACHING? WE HOPE SO.I WANT TO THANK BRIAN CUNNINGHAM FOR BEING HERE. HE HAS DONE QUITE A FEW OF THE PUBLIC WORKS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS, AND IT WAS OUR UNDERSTANDING, OR AT LEAST OUR INTERPRETATION, OF THE CLOSURE OF THE DECEMBER 18TH PUBLIC HEARING OF AN INTEREST TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, WHAT HAPPENS DURING DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, AND WHEN THE POTENTIAL IMPACT FEE CREDITS CAN BE TRIGGERED. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY IN OUR ORDINANCE, WE'RE VERY SPECIFIC ON IMPACT FEE CREDITS. I THINK THIS ONE, THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE THAT WE HAD AT THE LAST APPEAL ON THE 18TH WAS A LITTLE UNIQUE WHEN WE ALREADY HAD A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IN PLACE. AND SO I'M HOPING THIS AFTERNOON IF I COULD JUST HAVE BRIAN KIND OF GO THROUGH THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT DOES WITH THESE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS FROM INCEPTION TO END, THAT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THE PROCESS. IF THAT IS DOABLE FOR THIS AFTERNOON. VERY GOOD.
THANK YOU. WELL, IT'S A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, SIMPLE PROCESS. WHEN A PLAN COMES IN AND IT GETS TO THE FINAL STAGES, THEN TO THE REVIEW PROCESS, THE CONSULTING ENGINEER WILL USUALLY REQUEST THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. I SEND THEM OUT AN APPLICATION THAT THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT THAT HAS THE OWNER'S NAMES AND THE INFORMATION THAT WE REQUIRE WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. AND THEN ONCE I GET THAT, I'LL DRAFT UP A SPECIAL CONDITIONS. SPECIAL CONDITIONS ARE SPECIAL TO EACH DEVELOPMENT. AND ONCE THOSE ARE DRAFTED UP, I SEND IT BACK TO THE CONSULTING ENGINEER WHO WHO SHARES THAT WITH THE DEVELOPER. ONCE THEY'RE GOOD WITH THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS, THEN I'LL SEND IT TO LEGAL FOR THE FINAL DRAFT AND THEY'LL PUT TOGETHER THE THE NEED OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. SO, SO TYPICALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE A COPY OF THE DEVELOPMENT. THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS ARE USUALLY THE LAST 3 TO 4 PAGES AND INCLUDES THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION. AND THEN ANY SPECIAL CONDITIONS RELATIVE TO AND THEN THE FRONT HALF IS CREATED BY LEGAL. AND THEN ONCE WE GET THAT BACK AND SEND IT TO THEM FOR SIGNATURE NOTARY AND, AND THEN WE SEND IT TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO PRESENT TO YOU AT CITY COUNCIL.
BRIAN, IF I COULD ASK YOU, PUT YOU ON THE SPOT A LITTLE BIT. SO YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THIS AGREEMENT SENT TO THE ENGINEER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO THE PROJECT. SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT THAT ENGINEER OR PROJECT ENGINEER IS SHARING THAT INFORMATION WITH THEIR CLIENT? THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE THE CLIENT IS THE ONE WHO SIGNS THE DOCUMENT. SO WE'LL ASK YOU A QUESTION, MR. CRAM, THIS IS HOW I READ THE PACKETS. I GET THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, AND IT SEEMS LIKE A STANDARD. SO BASICALLY I'VE READ THAT A FEW TIMES NOW. I JUST SKIM THAT AND I GO TO EXHIBIT B SPECIAL CONDITIONS AND READ THAT WORD
[00:25:05]
FOR WORD BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WOULD AM I OKAY DOING THAT OR WILL THAT BASIC AGREEMENT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE. AND WOULD YOU TELL US IF IT DID LEGAL CREATES IT AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT CHANGE. OKAY. I'VE BEEN HERE EIGHT YEARS NOW AND I'VE NEVER SEEN THE FRONT THAT FRONT PORTION OF THE JURY. I'M TRYING TO FOCUS ON THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS BECAUSE THAT'S UNIQUE TO EACH DEVELOPMENT. CORRECT. OKAY, OKAY. AND COUNCILOR FRANCIS, IF I COULD ADD IT IS ALSO SENT OVER TO THE COUNTY AND THROUGH AN INSTRUMENT ONCE IT'S APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. SO THIS ONE FOR TERRACE GATE IS WHAT I'M HOLDING UP AS AN EXAMPLE. IT AFTER COUNCIL APPROVED IT ON JANUARY 25TH OF 2024. IT WAS SUBSEQUENTLY SENT OVER TO THE COUNTY AND RECEIVED AN INSTRUMENT NUMBER. AND THEN THIS INFORMATION WAS SHARED WITH THE ENGINEER ON THE PROJECT. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. YEAH. I'M NOT CRITICIZING ANYBODY HERE. I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE I CAN KEEP DOING MY SKIMMING OF CERTAIN PAGES IN THE PACKETS AND NOT MISS ANYTHING, OKAY. THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, AGREEMENT AND THE OPA, THE OWNER'S PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT THROUGH. ARE WE WORKING NOW TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE IN ALIGNMENT AS WELL? NOW, YOU'RE A LITTLE OUT OF MY WAY. WAY IN HERE. SO YEAH, THIS CAME UP. YES. WE'RE TRYING WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH THIS. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE'RE REALLY SPECIFIC IN BOTH DOCUMENTS, BUT THEY COULD BE VERY DIFFERENT. YEAH. PEOPLE THAT WE'RE PROMISING CREDITS TO. YEAH. AND IN GENERAL WE WANT TO GET IT IN FRONT OF THE PROPERTY OWNER. DEVELOPER. THAT'S WHO WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM BOTH IN FRONT OF. THIS CAME UP WITH THE. YEAH, I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF. IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS SINCE I'VE BEEN BACK AT THE OFFICE. YEAH. SO SO THAT CAME UP THROUGH THAT. SO COORDINATING BETTER OF THOSE.BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. SOMETIMES WHAT WE'RE FINDING THAT INDIVIDUAL OR, OR CORPORATION IS NOT THE SAME. AND SO IN THAT ASPECT WE HAVE TO GET IT IN FRONT OF WHOEVER HAS THE ENTITLED RIGHT TO IT. SO IT'S USUALLY THE PROPERTY OWNER IN THAT CASE. SO, SO THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY IS GOING TO TAKE ON AND NOT LEAVE IT FOR US. IT'S REALLY MY QUESTION IS MAKING SURE THAT THAT'S THAT OUR T'S ARE CROSSED AND OUR I'S ARE DOTTED AND WE CIRCLE BACK AROUND TO IT AND NOT EXPECT IFRA IFRA BOARD. YEAH. WITH WITH ME BEING IN THAT DUAL ROLE, WE'RE NOW DOUBLE CHECKING THAT WE DON'T CHECK ON IT. SO THAT WOULD AGAIN NOT COME IN THAT CAUSING ANY PROBLEMS. BUT IN FACT WE HAVE A MEETING ON THAT. I THINK IT'S WEDNESDAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. AND AND KIND OF WHAT HAPPENS FROM TIME TO TIME. AND YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. DIRECTOR SANDERS, FROM TIME TO TIME, YOU HAVE A DEVELOPER THAT ACQUIRES OR PURCHASES LAND FROM A PARTICULAR, EITHER A FARMER OR A LANDOWNER, AND THEN THEY ACTUALLY SELL IT TO ANOTHER DEVELOPER. AND AND SO SOMETIMES WHAT HAPPENS IS THIS INFORMATION THAT WE'VE MENTIONED HERE, LIKE THIS INSTRUMENT NUMBER, THAT'S WHY IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THAT INSTRUMENT NUMBER IS FILED AT THE COUNTY BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE TITLE OF THE PROPERTY. SO IT DOES. IT DOES. IT'S A LIVING, BREATHING DOCUMENT. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE MET IN DECEMBER OF 2025 WHEN THIS AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED IN JANUARY OF 2024. SO IT'S NOT UNCOMMON. I DON'T THINK IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME WHERE YOU HAVE A CELL DEVELOPER SELLING LAND, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN FROM TIME TO TIME.
AND AND WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT INTERNALLY IS, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF UNBINDING? MEETING WITH A DEVELOPER THAT MIGHT BE NEW, THAT HAS JUST PURCHASED IT, PERHAPS FROM ANOTHER DEVELOPER, TO GO OVER OUR PROCESS? I KNOW OUR MAYOR'S OFFICE HAS DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB AT CREATING A BROCHURE THAT TALKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WHAT IMPACT FEES ARE AND WHO THEY CAN CONTACT. MY CONCERN THOUGH, AND I AND I SHARED THIS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, IS THE FACT THAT I'M NOT OPPOSED TO ANSWERING QUESTIONS OR GETTING CALLED OR SETTING UP MEETINGS. WHAT I AM OPPOSED TO IS BEING IN A PUBLIC FORUM, AND THEN THE PERSON CLAIMING THAT I SAID SOMETHING THAT I NEVER SAID OR SOMETHING THAT I AGREED TO, THAT I NEVER AGREED TO. AND SO THAT'S WHERE A NONBINDING PROCESS WOULD BE HELPFUL, I THINK, TO SOME OF OUR NEWER DEVELOPMENTS IN THE COMMUNITY OR DEVELOPERS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT ALLOW THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO JUST KIND OF BRAINSTORM A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEIR PROPERTY WITHOUT THERE BEING, WELL, I GOT THIS EMAIL OR THIS PERSON SAID THIS, AND THEN WE'RE LIKE,
[00:30:02]
FINDING OURSELVES POTENTIALLY. SO I THINK THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TOO. IS A GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE OPTION FOR SOME OF OUR NEWER DEVELOPERS. I WANT TO GO BACK JUST TO THE OWNER'S PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT AND THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. ARE THEY IS THERE AN AREA OF OVERLAP OR IS IT THAT I SEE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DUAL ROLE AND HOW THAT'S KEY TO MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THOSE TWO AGREEMENTS ONE IS ENTERED IN WITH THE WITH IFRA. IT'S JUST IN WHO THAT AGREEMENT IS WITH.THEY'RE TYPICALLY IT'S WITH THE SAME INDIVIDUAL IN GENERAL IT'S WITH THE SAME DEVELOPER. BUT THERE ARE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES. AND WHAT HAPPENED IN EAGLE RIDGE WAS THAT DEVELOPMENT WAS TAKEN ON BY ANOTHER ENTITY. AND THAT ENTITY DID NOT KNOW THE AGREEMENT THAT WAS TAKEN UNDER BY THE INITIAL DEVELOPER. AND SO THAT INFORMATION WASN'T PASSED ON. THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS, BUT THE OPA WASN'T, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
SO THAT'S WHERE THE OVERLAP THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AND IT WAS AN INTERNAL MISCOMMUNICATION ON THAT BETWEEN IFRA AND THE CITY. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT OVERLAP OCCURRED OKAY. OKAY. SO BUT IN GENERAL THOSE AGREEMENTS ARE MADE WITH THE SAME DEVELOPER.
AND SO THEY'RE VERY AWARE OF WHAT THEY'VE AGREED TO AND WHAT NOT AGREED TO WITH IFRA, WITH THE CITY OR WITH WHOMEVER. ALL RIGHT. BUT THEN WHEN A SALE HAPPENS OR WHATEVER THIS CASE WAS, I'M ASSUMING THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A SALE WHERE ONE DEVELOPER WAS THERE AND ANOTHER ONE CAME IN. ISN'T IT SORT OF THE THE WHOLE CAVEAT EMPTOR. YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW WHAT. WHAT OBLIGATIONS THAT REAL ESTATE THAT YOU'RE TAKING ON WHAT IT HAS. AND SO, PAM, YOUR SUGGESTION I THINK IS DEFINITELY IN THE CATEGORY OF TROUBLESHOOTING AND PROBLEM AND CUSTOMER SERVICE. BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY PROBLEM THAT WE CREATED IN THE SENSE THAT THE NEW OWNERS OR DEVELOPERS WEREN'T FULLY AWARE OF THE PRIOR AGREEMENT, BUT THEY PROBABLY HAD THE DOCUMENTATION AVAILABLE TO THEM SOMEWHERE. IF THEY WOULD HAVE RUN A TITLE REPORT, THEY WOULD HAVE FOUND IT. BUT AGAIN, WE FIND JUST IN THE NATURE OF DEVELOPMENT, SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T EVEN CHECK THEIR PLATS. AND THAT'S RECORDED. AND I'M TRYING TO PUT A BUILDING OVER AN EASEMENT THAT'S RECORDED. I'M USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. SORRY, BUT A LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE, THERE'S THESE ENCUMBRANCES ON A PROPERTY OR SOME AGREEMENT ON A PROPERTY AND NOT EVERYBODY LOOKS THROUGH IT. EVEN THE TITLE REPORTS SOMETIMES THOSE RUN AND HAVE SO MANY LINES OF INFORMATION, THEY JUST DON'T GO THROUGH IT WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB LIKE THEY SHOULD. BUT IN GENERAL, THEY'RE ONCE THEY'RE RECORDED WITH THE COUNTY, THEY'RE ON THERE AND THEY'RE ENCUMBERED ON THE PROPERTY. OKAY. SO IT WOULD BE PRETTY GREAT IF WE COULD HAVE A TRIGGER OF SOME KIND WHEN WE FIND OUT THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENT OWNER ASSUMING AN AGREEMENT THAT WE SOMEHOW ARE THEN TRIGGERED TO ASK THEM TO CHECK FOR THIS. DID YOU DO THAT? OKAY. SO WHETHER IT'S A CONSULTATION OR A Q&A OR SOMETHING, I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT BEING NON-BINDING. BUT ANYWAY, THAT IS A I DON'T KNOW, ARE YOUR WHEELS TURNING ON RIGHT NOW? IT'S REALLY A CHECK ON ME, TO BE QUITE FRANK. LIKE WHEN THOSE OPA'S ARE COMING IN, I JUST HAVE TO BE AWARE THAT, HEY, THIS THIS DEVELOPMENT EITHER HAS ALREADY BEEN MOVING AND WE'RE AND WE'RE WORKING ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND SO I JUST NEED TO COORDINATE WITH ENGINEERING. AND THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT'S EVER COME UP.
AND SO IT WAS GOOD I MEAN IT'S RECORDED THE RECORD WAS VERY GOOD ABOUT HEY WHERE WAS THIS.
AND SO THEN IT SPARKED THIS, HEY, WE NEED TO HAVE AN INTERNAL CONVERSATION. SO WE DID BEFORE THE CHANGING AN OWNER CAN HAPPEN WHETHER IT'S AN INFRA PROJECT OR NOT. AND SO IN THAT CASE, WE STILL WOULD HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT PAM'S DESCRIBING. RIGHT. AND THAT STILL EXISTS. I MEAN, EVEN WITH LAND AND LAND TRANSACTIONS THERE, THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THEY THEY THINK THEY BOUGHT SOMETHING AND THEY HAVE NOT OR THEY BOUGHT SOMETHING AND THEY DON'T KNOW THE AGREEMENT'S COMPLETELY ON THE PROPERTY. AND THAT'S WHERE IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BUYER BEWARE THAT ASPECT. WE DON'T GET INVOLVED IN THAT. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE AGREEMENTS ON THE CITY, WE'LL HOLD THEM TO THAT. AND WHAT I GUESS THAT WAS MY MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION IS, IF WE HAVE THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH A DEVELOPER THAT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO REIMBURSE THEM FOR IMPACT FEES, AND IT CHANGES HANDS, HOW DO WE DO? WE FOLLOW WHOEVER THE
[00:35:01]
DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS WITH, OR DO WE FOLLOW THE INSTRUMENT RECORDING? WELL, BY BY THE DOCUMENT, WE'RE OBLIGATED TO THAT PERSON, TO THIS PERSON FOR WHO IT SOLD TO, BECAUSE IT DOES GO TO THE HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS. SO AND AND AS PART OF THE PROCESS THAT THAT I FOLLOW AS THE IMPACT FEE ADMINISTRATOR IS, I GO THROUGH EVERY DEPARTMENT THAT'S INVOLVED AND MEET WITH THEM ONE ON ONE AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT THE ISSUE IS. AND I LOOK AT ALL THE DOCUMENTATION AND THEN I PREPARE A DRAFT, AND THEN I HAVE OUR CITY ATTORNEY LOOK AT THE DRAFT. BUT WE DO.AND THIS PARTICULAR LAST ONE THAT WE HAD, WE MET WITH I MET DIRECTLY WITH DIRECTOR SANDER, I MET WITH DIRECTOR FREDERICKSON, AS WELL AS BRIAN CUNNINGHAM AND ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF CANFIELD. AND I HAVE TO SAY, CHRIS SQUARED. BUT AND SO WE REALLY DO TRY TO DO AN INTERNAL, THOROUGH PROCESS. BUT ONCE WE'RE TRIGGERED INTO A SITUATION THAT TRIGGERS THE ORDINANCE, THAT'S THE THAT'S THE PATH WE HAVE TO FOLLOW. DO YOU NEED TO CORRECT ME AT ALL? CITY ATTORNEY? I HAVE NOTHING YET. DOES ANY OF THIS PROCESS CHANGE IN THE NEW VERSION OF THE IMPACT FEE ORDINANCE THAT WE ARE SOMEDAY GOING TO BE ADOPTING? OR IS ALL THIS LANGUAGE REMAINING THE SAME, OR ARE THERE CHANGES, DO YOU THINK, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING WITH THE APPEAL, THE IN GENERAL AND ALL THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS THAT WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW? YOU MEAN FOR IMPACT FEE CREDIT REQUESTS? I DON'T THINK OUR WE'RE NOT AMENDING THAT PART. OKAY. MAY I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? MY UNDERSTANDING IS IS NO, WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT AMENDING THAT PART CURRENTLY. BUT THAT'S WHERE I THINK IF WE COULD COME UP WITH, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SOME LANGUAGE OR, OR AN INTERNAL PROCESS WHERE WE COULD ALLOW FOR A NONBINDING OPPORTUNITY OR CONSULTATION, IF YOU WILL, THAT THAT MIGHT HELP. LIKE I SAID, SOME OF OUR NEW DEVELOPERS, SOME OF OUR DEVELOPERS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR QUITE A WHILE, AS WELL AS THE ENGINEERING FIRMS. THEY KNOW THIS PROCESS PRETTY WELL, BUT IT BUT IT WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE THAT NON-BINDING CONSULTATION, PROVIDED THAT IT DOESN'T COME BACK TO COUNCIL AND SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THEY TOOK EXCEPTION TO THIS WHEN IT'S NOT IN WRITING, EVERYTHING THAT I DO UNDER MY CURRENT ROLE AS THE ADMINISTRATOR, I PUT IN WRITING EVERYTHING FROM EMAILS TO LETTERS. I DON'T HAVE ANY VERBAL CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT CAN GO SIDEWAYS AT AN APPEAL HEARING. AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WOULD BE HELPFUL, IS IF WE HAD SOME KIND OF NON-BINDING OPPORTUNITY THAT MIGHT PROVIDE ADDITIONAL CUSTOMER SERVICE, AS WELL AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DEVELOPERS TO KNOW THE PROCESS BEFORE THEY POTENTIALLY PURCHASE A PROPERTY. SO I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE JUST ABOUT ALL THE RIGHT INTERESTED PARTIES IN THE ROOM, WHERE IS THAT TOUCH POINT WHERE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO OFFER A CONSULTATION? IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO CREATE A WHOLE NEW PROCESS, OR IS THERE SOMEWHERE WHERE WE CAN JUST ADD THE LITTLE ASTERISK, HEY YOU, WE SEE THAT YOU'VE CHANGED OWNERSHIP. WE WOULD OFFER CONSULTATION TO HELP YOU GO THROUGH, YADA YADA. AND WE COULD I DON'T KNOW, WHERE WOULD WE INSERT THAT? IS THERE A NATURAL SPOT OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO THINK HARD ABOUT? ANYBODY WHO'S BEEN THROUGH ANY OF THIS BEFORE? OKAY, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T CATCH THE FIRST PART OF THAT QUESTION.
WOULD YOU MIND REPEATING IT FOR ME, PLEASE? WHAT PAM IS SUGGESTING IS THIS MAKING AVAILABLE, PERHAPS AN INFORMAL CONSULT. AND I'M TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHERE THE NATURAL TOUCH POINT IS FOR US TO OFFER THAT. DO WE EVEN GET NOTIFIED WHEN THERE'S A CHANGE, OR HOW DO WE FIND OUT? IS IT JUST WHEN A DIFFERENT PERSON COMES TO THE WINDOW? THE ONLY TIME THAT WE'RE AWARE OF IT WOULD BE PRIMARILY THROUGH OUR PREDEVELOPMENT PROCESS, OR THE INITIAL CONVERSATION THEY HAVE WITH MY DEPARTMENT. WE WE ALERT THEM OF HAVING CHECKED. WE TYPICALLY TELL THEM, HAVE YOU CHECKED? YOU KNOW WHAT THE RECORD IS ON THE PROPERTY. AND THEN THROUGH PREDEVELOPMENT, WE ALSO GO BACK AND DO RESEARCH AS WELL. AND I WAS JUST THINKING OF A PREDEVELOPMENT MEETING WE HAD A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO IN WHICH CARRIE ALERTED THEM, HEY, ARE YOU AWARE OF X? IT WAS AN AGREEMENT AND THEY WEREN'T AWARE OF IT. SO. AND SO WHEN THIS GROUP TOOK OVER THE APPELLANTS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH AND YEAH, WHEN THEY TOOK OVER, WE WEREN'T OFFERING THE PREDEVELOPMENT MEETING. AND NOW THAT WE ARE, WE CAN COVER IT THERE. OH FOR IMPACT FEES. WELL WELL WE JUST DO PREDEVELOPMENT FOR STANDARD DEVELOPMENT. SO
[00:40:09]
ANYBODY CAN COME IN FOR PREDEVELOPMENT MEETING AND, BUT THEY DON'T USUALLY COME IN FOR LIKE A, USUALLY THE PREDEVELOPMENT MEETING. IN THIS CASE I BELIEVE THEY HAD THEY HAD PERMITS WOULD HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED. YES. THIS WAS THIS WAS 2 OR 3 YEARS PRIOR. SO THAT'S I GUESS I'LL TRY TO I'M GOING TO TRY ONE MORE TIME AND THEN I'LL GIVE UP. BUT GIVEN THAT IF A PARCEL THAT'S UNDER DEVELOPMENT, UNDER PERHAPS SOME BINDING AGREEMENTS CHANGES HANDS, DIFFERENT OWNERS AND THOSE OWNERS WOULD BENEFIT, PERHAPS FROM THE KIND OF CONSULT THAT ARE NON-BINDING CONVERSATION JUST TO HELP THEM OUT. THEY WOULD BENEFIT FROM IT.BUT HOW DO WE OFFER IT? IS THERE A TIME WHEN WE CAN, WHEN WE WHEN WE KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP, OR DO WE NOT? THE ONLY TIME THAT WE TYPICALLY KNOW IS THAT A PREDEVELOPMENT MEETING, WHEN THEY COME IN TO MY DEPARTMENT AND SAY, WE'RE WANTING TO DEVELOP X, THAT'S OWNERSHIP, BUT THEN A CHANGE THEREAFTER, WE NEVER KNOW ABOUT IT. WE DON'T USUALLY HEAR ABOUT IT UNLESS THEY COME IN FOR A PERMIT OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY ARE TAKING OVER THE PROJECT AND THEY SAY, AND THEN THEY THEY WOULD FILE THAT THEY'RE THE APPLICANT ON THAT. SO THAT WOULD BE THE TIME. THAT WOULD BE THE TIME. YEAH. WE COULD SAY, HEY, JUST SO AND WE USUALLY DO. HEY, JUST SO YOU KNOW, USUALLY WE DO IT ON A STAFF BASIS AND SAY, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THIS AGREEMENT HAS BEEN ENTERED INTO AT THAT TIME? OKAY. AND IF THEY WEREN'T AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, WE COULD TRY TO ANSWER THEM QUICKLY AT THE WINDOW OR WE COULD OFFER WE USUALLY BRING THEM IN WHEN THERE'S A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP, LIKE THEY USUALLY GO INTO CARRIE'S OFFICE OR WHATEVER THE PROJECT MANAGER OF THE PROJECT WAS. AND SO IT'S POSSIBLE THEN TO ASK THE QUESTION, ARE YOU AWARE OF IMPACT FEES AND HAVE YOU DONE SOME DUE DILIGENCE ON THAT? AND IF NOT, THEN PAM SHOULD BE INVITED TO THE MEETING TO. YEAH, YEAH, A THOUGHT. I'M JUST TRYING TO KIND OF OPERATIONALIZE WHAT PAM'S POINT WAS MAKING. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TO MAKE AN APPEARANCE AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF NECESSARY. YOU KNOW, PROVIDED THAT. THAT IT IT IS NOT A FORMAL DETERMINATION AND MORE OF A CONSULTATION ROLE OF WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT AND GO OVER THE I'M NOT A I DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT AT ALL. ALL RIGHT. JIM. I JUST WAS WONDERING IF THERE WAS MAYBE A CHECKLIST WE COULD PUT TOGETHER OR SOMETHING SO THAT EVERYBODY'S GETTING A CONSISTENT MESSAGE THAT IT'S NOT NOBODY FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS. YOU ASK THE EVERY, EVERY DEVELOPER, HAVE YOU DONE THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS AND CHECK THAT AND THAT AND THAT.
RIGHT. SO SO THEY SAY YES OR NO AND WE SAY, OKAY, IF IT'S IF THE ANSWER IS YES AND EVERYTHING IS OKAY. BUT THEN YOU CAN THEN YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVICE, RIGHT, ABOUT HOW TO NAVIGATE THIS PART THAT THEY HADN'T THOUGHT OF. RIGHT. SO I MEAN, I CAN SEE THAT SOME DEVELOPER MIGHT, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT ASK YOU, OTHERS DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA. THEY SHOULD ASK THE QUESTION. RIGHT. SO IF WE HAD SOME SORT OF A, YOU KNOW, A ONE PAGE THING THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THESE SIX THINGS. YEAH. AND THAT'S AND MAYBE TO TAKE A BACKTRACK TO ON THAT A LITTLE BIT. TYPICALLY WHAT YOU SEE WHEN THERE'S A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP ON A DEVELOPMENT MIDSTREAM IS USUALLY THROUGH A BANKRUPTCY OF SOME KIND. AND THAT'S NOT A QUESTION YOU COULD ASK, THOUGH. HAS THERE BEEN A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP AND DURING DEVELOPMENT? RIGHT. AND IF THEY SAY YES THEN THEN THAT'S, THAT'S THERE'S FOUR MORE QUESTIONS YOU'RE GOING TO ASK. YEAH. AND THAT AND YEAH. NO THAT'S A VERY, A VERY GOOD, VERY GOOD POINT. USUALLY WHEN THERE'S A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP THEY COME IN FOR THAT PRE-DEVELOPMENT AT THAT TIME. AND THAT'S WHERE WE DO PROVIDE A CHECKLIST FOR OKAY. HEY HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THIS THIS THIS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO IS KIND OF WHAT GETTING TO WHAT THE MAYOR WAS SAYING IS TYPICALLY WHEN IT'S WE USUALLY SEE THERE'S DEVELOPERS THAT ARE GOOD AT DOING PLATS, AND THEN THERE ARE DEVELOPERS THAT ARE GOOD AT BUILDING. AND SOMETIMES THAT'S THE SAME, SOMETIMES THEY'RE DIFFERENT. AND USUALLY THERE IS A SALE AT THAT POINT.
BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT TIMES IN OUR DEVELOPMENT PROCESS THAN THEY'LL GO THROUGH ENTITLEMENT AND DO A PLAT. AND THEN WE KNOW THAT THEY'VE SOLD IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE, BECAUSE THAT DEVELOPER WILL THEN COME IN AND TALK TO US, AND WE'LL HAVE A PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETING FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT. SO IT'S JUST USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S SOMETHING IN AGREEMENT AND THERE'S A SWITCH. THIS ONE IN EAGLE RIDGE WAS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. IT I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE. TYPICALLY I'VE SEEN WHERE THERE WAS A BANKRUPTCY AND THEY LOST THEIR SHIRT. AND SO THEN THEY FORECLOSED AND THEN SOMEONE ELSE TOOK OVER THE PROJECT.
YEAH. IT'S NOT VERY COMMON MIDSTREAM. SO. OKAY. AND THEN LISA, YOU HAD MENTIONED THE
[00:45:06]
OWNER'S PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT. IS THAT ALSO RECORDED AND IS IT ATTACHED TO THE PROPERTY? YEAH, BRIAN WAS JUST ASKING ME THAT. AND I WILL HAVE TO TALK TO OUR LEGAL COUNSEL WITH EFRA, BECAUSE IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, IT'S JUST A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN BETWEEN EFRA AND THAT DEVELOPER. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S ACTUALLY RECORDED, BUT I COULD I MAY BE MISTAKEN IN THAT. OKAY. BUT I WILL HUNT THAT DOWN FOR SURE AND MAKE SURE WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT. WE CAN DEFINITELY CHANGE THAT. SO I WANT TO TRY TO CLARIFY ALL OF THIS WITH A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. SURE. SO ON THE NORTH SIDE FAIRWAY ESTATES THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT TO BUILD A BRIDGE CONNECTING TO LEWISVILLE HIGHWAY. WAS THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER. WOULD THAT DEVELOPER SOLD TO ANOTHER DEVELOPER? AT WHAT POINT WAS IT COMMUNICATED FROM THE CITY TO THE NEW DEVELOPER THAT THE BRIDGE HAD TO BE BUILT? OR DO WE DEPEND ON THE TWO DEVELOPERS TO MAKE THAT COMMUNICATION? I'M TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING SPECIFIC HERE, AND I HAVE A SECOND QUESTION RELATED TO THAT, I DON'T KNOW. THAT THAT WAS BUT THE THE THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER BUILT THE BRIDGE, RIGHT. BUT NOT THE CONNECTION TO LEWISVILLE. BUT THE DEVELOPER HAD TO COMPLETE THE CONNECTION. THE PAVEMENT IS STILL IN PROCESS, BUT THAT'S THAT'S BETWEEN THE TWO DEVELOPERS FOR COMMUNICATION. SO WE EXPECT THE TWO DEVELOPERS TO COMMUNICATE THIS INFORMATION IN THE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. AND THE REASON IS, IS IT'S IT'S IN A RECORDED DOCUMENT. IT'S TIED TO THE PROPERTY AND THEREBY AGREEMENT. IF I'M BUYING THE PROPERTY, AND IT JUST MIGHT GET DILIGENCE TO FIND OUT WHAT I'M ENCUMBERED TO DO. AND PURCHASE. AND PART OF IT, SORRY, COUNCILMEMBER FRANCIS, AND PART OF THAT TOO, IF YOU LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT AGAIN WAS COMMUNICATED BY STAFF BECAUSE PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS THAT NO CLOSE WERE ISSUED UNTIL. SO THE AGREEMENT WAS WHATEVER. WHOEVER DEVELOPED THAT PROPERTY KNOWS C OF OS WERE ISSUED UNTIL THAT BRIDGE WAS FINISHED. AND AND THE PUD THAT'S COMING ON THURSDAY THAT THAT'S IN THE PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN THE OTHER THING QUESTION WHEN THESE AGREEMENTS, DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS COME TO COUNCIL AND YOU HAVE THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS, DOES THE COUNCIL HAVE THE POWER TO AMEND THOSE. THAT'S A QUESTION FOR YOU. IF IT HASN'T BEEN SIGNED YET, IF WE HAVEN'T ENTERED INTO A BINDING CONTRACT, IT'S STILL UP FOR NEGOTIATION. AND COUNCIL COULD SAY, NO, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THIS, PARTICULARLY NOW. WE WOULD HAVE WE COULDN'T JUST UNILATERALLY CHANGE IT. USUALLY THEY COME TO US ALREADY SIGNED BY THE OTHER PARTY. WE COULDN'T JUST SIGN IT THEN AND THEN US SIGN IT. WE WOULD HAVE TO SAY WE'RE REJECTING THIS. SO WHAT COUNCIL WOULD DO IS VOTE TO REJECT IT AND THEN SAY, HERE ARE THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS WE WOULD REQUIRE, AND THEN IT WOULD BE UP TO THE DEVELOPER WHETHER THEY WHETHER THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT. AND THEN THEY WOULD DECIDE WHETHER TO ACCEPT IT OR CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE. AND THEN WE BRING IT BACK TO THE COUNCIL. AND I ASKED BECAUSE. OFTENTIMES IT COMES TO US, WE AGREE TO THE DEVELOPMENT. IT'S A SPECIAL MOTION. AND WE WOULD HAVE TO JUST SAY NO AND THEN TRY TO GIVE A REASON AND BASICALLY ASKING THE STAFF AND THE DEVELOPER TO GO BACK AND FIX SOMETHING. YEP, YEP. HE WOULD BE HE WOULD BE REJECTING IT AND THEN SAYING, THIS IS THIS IS WHY. AND THIS IS WHAT WE'D LIKE CHANGED. NOW, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER PARTY IS FREE TO ACCEPT OR REJECT THAT AS WELL. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF CONTRACT. AND SO, COUNCILOR FRANCIS, I'M CURIOUS, JUST BECAUSE PROCESS MATTERS AND PREDICTABILITY MATTERS AND MONEY IS USUALLY ON THE LINE, YOU KNOW, LOANS, DEADLINES AND SUCH. AND SO IT WOULD BE, I THINK. IT WOULD BE NOT SUPER PRECEDENTED FOR THE COUNCIL TO START GETTING INVOLVED. WHAT IS WHAT IS THE WHAT'S UNDERNEATH? IT IS, IN RETROSPECT, YEARS AGO I WISH I HAD HAD SOME WAY TO SAY NO. YOU HAVE TO BUILD THAT CONNECTION TO THE LEWISVILLE HIGHWAY BY SUCH AND SUCH A DATE, INSTEAD OF BASED ON HOW MANY HOUSES, HOW MANY RESIDENTS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGAL, BUT IT'S THE ONE TIME THAT I LOOKED AT SOMETHING AND SAID, I WISH I'D BEEN ABLE TO SAY NO. THAT HAS GOT TO BE DONE BY A DATE, AND I THINK IT WOULD HAVE ALLEVIATED A WHOLE LOT OF DISCOMFORT AMONG RESIDENTS IN THE CITY IF WE HAD BEEN ABLE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ILLEGAL. THE ONLY TIME I LOOKED AT ONE OF THESE, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WE COULD DO THAT. IT SORT OF TOOK IT AS A FINAL PLAT SORT OF THING. BUT IF IT IS, AND ANOTHER CASE LIKE THAT COMES UP, MAYBE SOMETIMES WE SHOULD SAY,[00:50:05]
WAIT A MINUTE, THAT DOESN'T SEEM QUITE RIGHT, BECAUSE WE'VE GIVEN THE ENTIRE POWER TO THE DEVELOPER WHO COULD STOP ONE RESIDENT SHORT OF THE REQUIREMENT AND NEVER BUILD THE CONNECTION, WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR OUR FIRE RESPONSE OR ANYTHING ELSE. THAT'S THAT'S WHY I RAISED THE QUESTION A LITTLE BIT OF THAT DISCUSSION WHEN THAT WAS HAPPENING, IF I RECALL. BUT IT WAS IT. THIS IS ALL KIND OF INTERESTING. I GUESS. MAYBE THE TAKEAWAY ISN'T THAT COUNCIL SHOULD, LIKE REGULARLY THINK OF WAYS TO IMPROVE DOCUMENTS WHEN IT'S KIND OF OUT OF OUT OF AN ELECTED OFFICIALS DEPTH, BUT MAYBE IT'S JUST THAT WE NEED TO BE SUPER CURIOUS WITH ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS AND TRY TO REMEMBER THE HARD LESSONS FROM THESE WEIRD EXAMPLES THAT CAN HELP US IMPROVE FUTURE. AND I GUESS TO ME, THAT WAS A HARD LESSON. YEAH, IT WENT ON AND ON AND ON AND THEY NEVER. AND NOW THEY'RE THERE. THOSE KINDS OF REQUIREMENTS ARE TRIGGERED BY ME. AND TO TO HAVE SOMETHING, HAVE THE CITY REQUIRE SOMETHING TO BE BUILT BEFORE IT WAS NEEDED. IS IT. THAT'S A DEBATABLE TRICKY ONE TOO. SO THIS IS OKAY. THIS IS HARD WORK. THAT'S MY EXAMPLE OF WHERE I LOOKED AT ONE OF THESE. I WISH I'D BEEN ABLE TO DO SOMETHING, BUT I DIDN'T FEEL AS IF WE COULD. ALL RIGHT. SO THERE WAS A QUESTION ASKED EARLIER ABOUT GETTING A CREDIT FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE AGAINST FUTURE PAYMENTS FOR A DIFFERENT PHASE. WHAT'S THE RELATIONSHIP? ARE WE KEEPING ALL OF OUR CREDITS AND REIMBURSEMENTS WITHIN, WITHIN SPECIFIC PHASES? OR WHEN WE KNOW THAT SOMEBODY'S GOT FIVE PHASES, ARE WE BANKING ON FUTURE INTERACTIONS WITH THEM TO DO IT? WELL, I COULD BE MISTAKEN, BUT I THINK THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THE FIRST WE'VE HAD OF THIS NATURE. AND SO WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS WORKING WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. BUT AS I MENTIONED, FOR THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPER, THEY DO HAVE IMPACT FEES THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING PAID UNDER REVIEW STATUS. SO THAT WOULD BE IF THERE WERE IF THEY WOULD LIKE CREDIT TOWARDS ONE OF THOSE, THAT'S WHERE WE CAN DOCUMENT IT IN THE SYSTEM. BUT WE HAVEN'T DONE ONE YET.AND ESPECIALLY WE HAVEN'T DONE ONE IN OUR NEW CITY WORK SYSTEM. SO WE'LL BE WORKING TOGETHER ON THAT POST THURSDAY'S APPROVAL OF THE REASON STATEMENT AND THE RESOLUTION. OKAY, OKAY. NO. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THOUGHTS? WE'VE EATEN THIS DEAD HORSE, YOU KNOW. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S A WEIRD EXPRESSION. KNOW WHY I SAID IT ANYWAY? DONE WITH THAT. ALL RIGHT, SO THE LAST PART OF
[Mayor, City Council]
OUR AGENDA IS MAYOR AND COUNCIL REPORTS. AND AS A PART OF THIS, AS YOU'LL SEE, IT'S WRITTEN VERY, VERY BROADLY. WE DISCUSS CALENDAR ITEMS, MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS, TALK ABOUT EVENTS, UPDATES, CONCERNS, QUESTIONS, DISCUSSIONS. IT WAS WRITTEN BROADLY ON PURPOSE. AND I GUESS, ARE THERE ANY OF YOU WHO WISH TO JUST MAKE A BROADER REPORT OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE TIME? I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH COUNCILOR FRANCIS WHO HAS TO LEAVE. OBVIOUSLY HE STEPPED OUT, BUT THE POINT THAT HE WAS MAKING WAS THAT THAT TIME MAYBE ISN'T. THE REPORTS AREN'T AS ROBUST AS THEY COULD BE, AND THE NOTIFICATION TO EACH OTHER COULD COULD BE IMPROVED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR DEPARTMENTS ABOVE AND BEYOND. JUST GIVING CALENDAR, CALENDAR, SHARING CALENDAR ITEMS. AND SO DEPENDING ON WHAT KIND OF A SYSTEM YOU HAVE GOING FORWARD, IF AGENDAS ARE BUILT WITH SOME KIND OF REPORTING SYSTEM LIKE THIS, YOU COULD MAYBE TAKE MORE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. AND HE HAD WANTED TO HAVE A BIT OF A DISCUSSION AND HE HAD SOME POINTS HE WANTED TO RAISE, BUT GIVEN THAT HE HAS TO LEAVE, I WAS JUST GOING TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ON HIS MIND. SO ANYWAY, WITH THAT, WHY DON'T WE? AS FAR AS CALENDAR GOES, I DID NOT PREPARE A FLIER OF ANY KIND FOR YOU, BUT WE HAVE DIRECTOR FREDERICKSON, WHOSE SON IS KIND OF. IT'S EXCITING, IS PLAYING IN A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL GAME TONIGHT. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO WATCH IT, THERE'S A SMALL GROUP THAT'S GOING TO BE WATCHING IT AT A RESTAURANT. ANOTHER THING IS THAT THURSDAY NIGHT WE HAVE A COUNCIL MEETING NEXT WEEK. I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU ARE PLANNING TO ATTEND THE ICA MEETING. ESUR HAS THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING IT'S ALL DAY SESSION NEXT TUESDAY, WHICH IS VERY INFORMATIVE. AND THEN THAT NIGHT IT ALWAYS HAS THE FIRST LEGISLATIVE BANQUET OF THE SESSION. AND SO WE GET FIRST BASE TIME. AND THAT'S KIND OF NICE BECAUSE THOSE LEGISLATORS ARE NOT BURNED OUT YET. AND SO[00:55:01]
WHEN THERE ARE MESSAGES TO SHARE, I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT THAT YOU APPROACH THAT BANQUET. THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE GOING WITH TWO THINGS IN MIND. ONE IS TO LISTEN TO THE CONTENT OF THE DAY ON MONDAY OR TUESDAY WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THE TRAINING FROM AND THE ORIENTATION FROM ICA, AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT ESUR WANTS YOU TO, TO BE DISCUSSING WITH MEMBERS. BUT THEN SECONDLY, TAKE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT YOU HAVE JUST CITYWIDE. AND, CATHERINE, MAYBE YOU COULD CREATE A JUST A QUICK, YOU KNOW, 3 OR 4 POINT LIST OF ISSUES THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY WANT TO DISCUSS WITH LEGISLATORS WHILE THEY HAVE THEIR EAR TO BEND NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT. SO IF YOU GO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE TIME. AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT TO OUR COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND WE'LL RUN THE TABLE, SEE IF ANYBODY HAS ANY REPORTS. MAYOR, DID YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN HOW THURSDAY WAS GOING TO WORK? WOULD YOU MIND TAKING A MINUTE TO. NO. NO PROBLEM. SO THURSDAY, THAT MEETING BEING A TRANSITION MEETING BETWEEN ONE ELECTION ELECTED GROUP TO ANOTHER, IS GOVERNED BY STATE STATUTE. AND SO WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE BEFORE AND THIS HAPPENS WHETHER WE HAVE A CHANGE OF MAYOR OR NOT. IT HAPPENS EVERY TWO YEARS. WE HAVE TO CONDUCT ALL BUSINESS AND THEN WE CONDUCT NEW BUSINESS. AND SO THE OLD BUSINESS THAT WAS ABLE TO HELP PIN IT DOWN, AND HE DID A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON MEETING AND TALKING TO OTHERS. AND IT IS PRIMARILY THINGS LIKE MINUTES. YOU DON'T WANT THE NEW COUNCIL WHO WASN'T EVEN ALL IN ATTENDANCE AT THOSE PRIOR MEETINGS TO APPROVE MINUTES. SO YOU WANT TO APPROVE MINUTES AND ANYTHING, ANY FISCAL ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE WRAPPED UP. AND SO THOSE THINGS WILL BE ON THE AGENDA FOR OLD BUSINESS. AND THEN WE WILL TRANSITION TO A SWEARING IN OF THE NEW NEWLY ELECTED. AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE THOSE WHO WERE REELECTED. AND THEN FROM THERE, AFTER THE SWEARING IN, THEN STATUTE REQUIRES THAT NEW COUNCIL PRESIDENT BE ELECTED, AND THEN THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MAYOR TO MAKE A SORRY THAT THE NEW MAYOR TO MAKE I CAN'T TALK ANY ASSIGNMENTS, ANY COMMENTS THAT THEY WISH TO MAKE. AND THEN YOU MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS. AND NEW BUSINESS IS PRETTY MUCH WE'RE DEFINING IT AS EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WASN'T DEFINED AS OLD BUSINESS. AND SO IT'S NOT A SUPER HEFTY AGENDA ON THURSDAY. BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS. AND SO YOU'LL WANT TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR PACKET SO THAT YOU'RE READY FOR THOSE HEARINGS ON THURSDAY EVENING. THOSE WOULD BE UNDER OLD BUSINESS. THEY WOULD BE UNDER NEW BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT FISCAL IN NATURE. AND IT ACTUALLY JUST IT'S MORE ELEGANT TO HAVE THEM AT THE END ANYWAY, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT A BIG PROCESS THAT MIGHT HAVE A LOT OF TESTIMONY HAPPENING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING. AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE LIKE, I THOUGHT MY DAD WAS GOING TO BE SWORN IN AND I WAS GOING TO WATCH. YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF NICE THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE MEETING, BUT YOU'LL WANT TO COME PREPARED TO BE SWORN IN IF YOU WERE JUST REELECTED. AND YOU'LL WANT TO BE PREPARED TO ELECT A NEW COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND MAKE THAT. AND THAT PROCESS WILL TYPICALLY THERE IS A NOMINATION AND ACCEPTANCE OF A NOMINATION. AND ONCE ALL THE NOMINATIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE MADE ARE MADE AND ACCEPTED OR NOT ACCEPTED, THEY NEED TO CLOSE THE NOMINATIONS AND THEN MOVE ON TO THE ELECTION ITSELF. AND SO IT'S SO THAT THERE WILL BE A PROCESS THERE. I'M NOT SURE IF I'VE COVERED EVERYTHING, BUT THAT'S JUST THE GENERAL OVERVIEW. SO WHEN YOU READ THE AGENDA, DON'T BE TOO CONFUSED BY WHY ARE WE HAVING TWO CONSENT AGENDAS AND WHY DO WE HAVE TWO REGULAR AGENDAS? I WILL ALSO SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS AFTER THE SWEARING IN, JUST TO IF THERE ARE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT, YOU KNOW, NEED TO LEAVE AND WHATEVER, WE'LL JUST TAKE A QUICK RECESS. AND THEN ONCE WE RECONVENE AFTER THE RECESS, THE ROLE HAS TO BE CALLED TO ESTABLISH A QUORUM WITH THE NEW NEWLY SWORN IN COUNCIL. SO IT'S IT'S AN INTERESTING NIGHT. IT'S THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER. SO IT'LL BE IT'LL BE FUN.YES. COMMENT. THE OTHER THING WE WERE HOPING TO DO WAS FOR THE COUNCIL MEETING, WAS TO DO THE FORMAL PICTURE OF THE NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS. SO IF EVERYONE COULD WEAR THEIR SUNDAY BEST, THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL AND MAYBE PLAN TO BE SORT OF SEVEN, SEVEN, 15, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO THAT PICTURE WOULD BE GREAT. OKAY. SO WAS EVERYBODY BEEN NOTIFIED ABOUT THAT. SO THE COUNCIL PHOTO WILL BE TAKEN IN HERE PRIOR TO THE MEETING. IF I THINK 715 MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT
[01:00:05]
LATE. PERSONALLY, IF YOU'VE GOT THE SEATS THAT ARE GOING TO BE FILLED BY FAMILY MEMBERS OR WHATEVER, AND SO IT MIGHT BEHOOVE YOU TO MAYBE GET HERE A LITTLE EARLIER THAN THAT SO THAT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE A FEW DIFFERENT SHOTS. I THINK WE SHOULD SET A TIME THAT'S 7:00. THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY. AND I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH CARLA AND SEND OUT AN OFFICIAL INVITE. WE JUST WERE TRYING TO SETTLE THE OLD BUSINESS, NEW BUSINESS, TO GET SORT OF A SENSE OF WHAT THAT TIME WAS BEFORE WE COMMITTED TO THE PHOTO. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BEING HERE AT SEVEN FOR PICTURES. YES. OKAY. IS THAT A HARDSHIP FOR ANYONE? NO. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN ANOTHER POINT. CAN I MAKE A COMMENT REGARDING THE SWEARING IN ORDER OR DO YOU WANT TO WAIT ON THAT? JUST NO QUESTIONS. SURE. GO AHEAD AND YOU'LL YOU'LL HAVE THAT ORDER.BUT DO YOU HAVE A MIC. BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU SHOULD TALK INTO IT. OKAY. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, MAYOR. RIGHT. OKAY. SO OUR CITY CODE I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THIS SO THAT WHEN YOU GUYS SEE THE AGENDA THAT COMES OUT FOR THURSDAY, THERE'S NO CONFUSION. OUR CITY CODE, SPECIFICALLY THE CITY COUNCIL SECTION OF OUR CODE, SPECIFIES THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS MUST BE SWORN IN IN THE ORDER OF VOTES RECEIVED, STARTING WITH THE MOST VOTES TO THE LEAST. SO WHEN YOU SEE THE AGENDA AND SEE THE ORDER OF SWEARING IN FOR THE THREE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, JUST KNOW THAT I DIDN'T JUST THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND. THERE IS A PURPOSE BEHIND IT. SO THAT ORDER IS DETERMINED BY VOTE COUNT. IS THAT THE THEN THAT ALSO DICTATES SENIORITY. AND THAT'S INTERESTING. BUT THEN AS I WAS TALKING TO EMILY EARLIER, I REALIZED SENIORITY REALLY DOESN'T FACTOR INTO HOW THIS COUNCIL OPERATES. AND SO IT'S KIND OF MOOT VOTE COUNT IN THE SO I SO THERE WERE TWO ELECTIONS. CORRECT. SO I DID I DID ANALYSIS ON THAT AS WELL. OKAY. AND IT'S BY NUMBER AND BY SAME ELECTION. SO EVEN THEN THE NUMBERS WORK OKAY. IS THE WAY OUR CODE READS. SO WHERE WHERE DID THIS LAND. IS THIS THE NOVEMBER ELECTION OR THE DECEMBER ELECTION? IT IT'S IT REFERS TO BEING IN THE SAME ELECTION. SO IT WOULD BE THE. SO BECAUSE ALL EVERYONE HAS TO DO IT RIGHT. EVERYBODY. YEAH. I JUST, I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO KNOW THAT IT WILL BE AN ORDER THAT YOU PROBABLY WEREN'T EXPECTING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I POINTED OUT TO HER THAT I HAVE A PHOTO SHOWING ME SWEARING IN SHELLEY SMITH, JIM FRANCIS AND JIM FREEMAN ALL AT THE SAME TIME. YEAH. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS THAT OUR CODE CHANGED OR IF IT WAS THAT WE DIDN'T READ THAT PART OF OUR CODE. AND I STARTED TO LOOK AT THE DATE, THE THE DATES WHEN OUR CODE HAD BEEN EDITED AND I DIDN'T. THERE WERE I SAW 2015, BUT I DIDN'T SEE READ THE DATES ANYTHING FOR ANYTHING THEREAFTER. SO ANYWAY, IF WE VIOLATED OUR CODE IN THE PAST, IT'S SO MOVED AT THIS POINT AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PENALTY. I DON'T THINK I'M AT RISK OF BEING SENT TO THE BIG HOUSE FOR THAT ONE. BUT IT WAS PERHAPS SERVING ILLEGITIMATELY FOR EIGHT YEARS. ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. WELL, THEN I THINK THAT WE ARE. OH, WAIT, YOU MEAN ANYTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS AT ALL? NO, NO. YEAH. WE NEED TO GO AROUND THE ROOM. OKAY? OKAY. MAYOR CASPER'S RECEPTION IS AT THE ART MUSEUM ON WEDNESDAY FROM 4 TO 630. NOT THE MUSEUM OF IDAHO AT THE ART MUSEUM ON CAPITOL. CARLA IS SENDING OUT CALENDAR INVITATIONS FOR THE CITY HOLIDAYS, CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS, THE WORK SESSION. MPO. I'VE JUST LEFT THAT THE SAME. AND ASKING COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS TO TAKE MY PLACE ON THAT AND EFRA WITH COUNCIL MEMBER LARSEN.
SO THOSE INVITATIONS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE BEING SENT OUT, ARE ALREADY THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD CONCERNING. THE NEW TIME CHANGES. WE'LL STILL KEEP 3:00 WORK SESSIONS, BUT 630 ON THURSDAY NIGHTS. THAT'S EVERYTHING. STARTING AFTER THIS.
YES, YES, AFTER THIS. AND THAT ORDINANCE WILL BE ON YOUR AGENDA UNDER NEW BUSINESS ON THURSDAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FREEMAN. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THERE. BUT I THINK I.
I DON'T NEED TO. NOW, I REALIZE THIS IS AN UNUSUAL TIME, BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT PROMPTED
[01:05:03]
COUNCILOR FRANCIS TO SAY WE'RE PROBABLY NOT USING THAT VERY WELL ANYWAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. WELL, I THINK WE CAN CONSIDER OURSELVES ADJOURNED AND WE'LL MEET AGAIN ON THURSDAY. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.