HERE WE GO. FEELS LIKE IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER EACH TIME FOR THAT SOUND TO KICK IN. I'M GOING
[ Call to Order and Roll Call]
[00:00:05]
TO HAVE TO TIME IT FOR REAL. SO WELCOME TO THE MEETING. CITY CLERK, AS YOU CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. WILL YOU CALL THE ROLL FOR US, PLEASE? COUNCIL PRESIDENT BURTENSHAW HERE.COUNCILOR RADFORD. PRESENT. PERFECT. COUNCILOR NEAL DINGMANN HERE. COUNCILOR. FREEMAN. HERE, COUNCILOR. FRANCIS HERE. COUNCILOR LARSON HERE. MAYOR, YOU HAVE A QUORUM. GOOD, GOOD.
[Mayor’s Office, City Attorney,Municipal Services]
WE HAVE A FULL HOUSE. SO I HOPE EVERYBODY HAD A GREAT WEEKEND. FOR THOSE OF YOU I SAW OVER OR SAW BEFORE. IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A DAY TO REMEMBER. THE RAIN WAS APPRECIATED BY SOME AND FELT LIKE MOCKERY FROM THE SKIES FROM OTHERS. BUT IT WAS. I GUESS AT THIS POINT, IT'S ALREADY A FUN LITTLE MEMORY THAT SOME OF US LOOK LIKE DROWNED RATS DURING THE PARADE. I'D LOVE TO HAVE ANY FEEDBACK FOR SPECTATORS, BUT IT WAS WHAT IT WAS. I DON'T KNOW YET HOW MUCH MONEY WAS RAISED FOR FOOD BASKET. DID ANYBODY HAPPEN TO HEAR THAT? TOTAL. RIGHT. IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO FOR THEM TO ASSESS ANYWAY, BECAUSE THE ONLINE PROBABLY GETS A LITTLE MUDDLED WITH WHETHER IT WAS A PARADE EFFECT OR JUST REGULAR ONLINE GIVING. BUT ANYHOW, IT ALWAYS FEELS GOOD TO BE PART OF A GOOD CAUSE. AND YOU KNOW THAT THE IDAHO FALLS COMMUNITY FOOD BASKET OR, SORRY, THE COMMUNITY FOOD BASKET IDAHO FALLS IS EXPERIENCING A LITTLE BIT OF NEED RIGHT NOW. SO IT WAS GOOD TO BE OR ACTUALLY, I MEAN, A BIT OF A BUMP IN NEED. SO ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE HAVE AN AGENDA. IT'S A VERY SHORT AGENDA TO BE FOLLOWED BY AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST YOUR FORBEARANCE. IF YOU'RE WILLING TO RECEIVE A REPORT FROM THE CHIEF. AND NOW, RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL WE HAVE MAYOR AND COUNCIL REPORTS THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO BE ABLE TO MOVE ON SHOULD HIS SCHEDULE REQUIRE IT AND NOT HAVE TO SIT HERE WHILE WE HAVE THE ENTIRE IMPACT FEE DISCUSSION. BUT IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO KIND OF ALLOWING THAT QUICK, QUICK REPORT FROM HIM? I ASKED HIM ORIGINALLY TO COME IN AND BE A PART OF THE OUR REGULAR REPORTS, BUT THEY'VE MADE A QUICK CHANGE IN THE DEPARTMENT. AND I THOUGHT TO BE GOOD FOR YOU TO HEAR THAT STRAIGHT FROM THE CHIEF, RATHER THAN ME TRYING TO BE THE MIDDLEMAN WITH THE INFO. THANK YOU MAYOR. SO THIS IS JUST SHOULD GO REALLY QUICK. SO GOING BACK THE LAST ABOUT THREE YEARS, AS WE'VE REPORTED MANY TIMES, THE MANY OF OUR CRIME CATEGORIES HAVE BEEN INCREASING, SPECIFICALLY, SEX OFFENSES OVER THAT THREE YEAR PERIOD WAS UP ABOUT 20%. IF WE LOOK AT THIS YEAR, I REPORTED THE VIOLENT CRIME STARTED TO GO DOWN. AND THAT'S REALLY GOOD NEWS. WE'VE GOT ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS OF THAT GOING DOWN. SO YEAR TO DATE RIGHT NOW VIOLENT CRIME IS DOWN 8%. HOWEVER, SUBCATEGORY SEX CRIME CONTINUES TO RISE. IT'S UP ANOTHER 9% THIS YEAR. SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAKING A CHANGE TO A SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT FORMAT FOR A WHILE. AND THE TIME JUST CAME TO DO THAT WITH THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS WE HAVE. SO WHAT THEY DID IS WITHIN THE INVESTIGATIVE BUREAU OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS INVESTIGATIONS, THEY JUST REORGANIZED THAT BUREAU A LITTLE BIT. SO IT'S NOT ADDITIONAL STAFFING. THEY TOOK TWO OF THE DETECTIVES, AND THEY FORM A SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT, AND THEY ARE PREDOMINANTLY GOING TO BE WORKING A CHILD SEX CASE, CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES, CHILD ABUSE CASES AND SOME ADULT SEX ABUSE CASES. WHAT THAT ALLOWS THEM TO DO IS DO MORE OF A TEAM APPROACH ON IT. THEY WORK AS A TEAM, BUT EACH DETECTIVE GETS ASSIGNED A CASE AND THEY THEY CARRY IT FORWARD. SO WITH THIS NEW, THIS NEW FORMAT, IF A DETECTIVE GOES ON VACATION OR DETECTIVE GOES TO TRAINING, THE CASE WILL CONTINUE TO BE WORK, AND IT PROVIDES BETTER SERVICE TO VICTIMS AND HELPS THEM TO HOPEFULLY SOLVE MORE OF THOSE CASES. IF THAT TREND CONTINUES OF ADDITIONAL SEX ASSAULT CASES IN COMING YEARS, THAT WE WOULD LOOK TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF THAT UNIT. BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, IS THE TWO OF THEM IN THE COUPLE OF WEEKS THAT THEY'VE BEEN UP AND RUNNING, THEY HAVE HANDLED ALREADY HUGE CASES WITH LOTS OF VICTIMS AND THEN SOME HAS REALLY HELPED HELPED THE DEPARTMENT RESPOND TO THOSE CASES. SO JUST A QUICK REORGANIZATION OF THE INVESTIGATIVE BUREAU TO BETTER SERVE SEX ASSAULT VICTIMS, ESPECIALLY CHILD VICTIMS. ANY QUESTIONS BASED ON THAT ANNOUNCEMENT? THAT SOUNDS GREAT.SOUNDS GOOD. BUT WE DO PARTNER WITH THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT CENTER. THIS IS PEOPLE SOLVING CRIMES. BUT THE TERM MAKES ME THINK OF ASSISTANCE TO THEM. IS THAT BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THEY DO FOR US, RIGHT? THEY DO. SO DVS DOES PROVIDE VICTIM SERVICES AND
[00:05:02]
THEY ARE USUALLY PARTS OF THESE CASES, NOT ALWAYS, BUT USUALLY PART OF IT. WE ALSO HAVE A VICTIM ADVOCATE WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT WE GOT A GRANT FOR, WHICH WE HAVE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THEY ALSO TRY TO PROVIDE THAT VICTIM SERVICES. THE DETECTIVE REORGANIZATION IS TO SOLVE THE CRIME AND HOPEFULLY FIND JUSTICE AND BRING BRING PEOPLE TO TRIAL. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'LL KEEP USING ALL OF THEM. WE WILL KEEP USING ALL OF THOSE VICTIMS RESOURCES AS PART OF THAT. YES. AND THIS IS A NEW TEAM APPROACH TO INVESTING IN. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FRANCIS.DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? IT DID. OKAY. EXACTLY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, CHIEF, FOR COMING. AND YOU MADE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN I COULD HAVE. SO THANKS FOR LETTING ME GO FIRST, I APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT TAKES US TO THE FIRST LISTED ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS OUR ONGOING WORK ON IMPACT FEES. AND TODAY THE BIKES THAT WE'RE TAKING IS THE BIKE THAT LOOKS AT SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND WHAT PART OF SQUARE FOOTAGE DO WE WANT TO INCLUDE. AND SO I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MARGARET AND MIKE. I KNOW PAM AND WADE ARE HERE AS WELL, EITHER RESOURCES OR STAR PARTICIPANTS WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT. SO WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO OLIVER. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US TODAY. TODAY IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF CONTINUE OUR WORKSHOPS ON THE UPDATE TO THE CITY'S CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN AND DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE STUDY. THE NEW DRAFT STUDY CALCULATES RESIDENTIAL IMPACT FEES BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE, RATHER THAN BUILDING TYPE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE STUDY ON PAGE, I THINK IT'S 14. THERE'S A CHART THAT SORT OF SHOWS THAT BREAKDOWN BY SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ALSO HOW IT RELATES TO OUR CURRENT FEES. A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE USING THIS MODEL, BUT AS WE SORT OF FINALIZE OUR PLANS AND ALSO OUR ORDINANCE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE COUNCIL ARE AWARE OF AND SORT OF CONSIDER IN THEIR DELIBERATIONS BEFORE WE ADOPT ANYTHING, THE CRITICAL QUESTION, AS WE SEE IT IS SORT OF WHAT CONSTITUTES SQUARE FOOTAGE. IS IT ALL THE SPACE? IS IT FINISHED SPACE? IS IT THE HEATED SPACE? IT'S CERTAINLY AN ISSUE THAT'S GENERATED A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN OUR IMPACT FEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. AND DIRECTOR ALEXANDER IS ON HAND TO SORT OF A REPRESENTATIVE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE DELIBERATIONS. AND IT ALSO CERTAINLY WILL IMPACT OR HAS THE POTENTIAL TO IMPACT THE AMOUNT OF FEES THAT WE COLLECT. AGAIN, AS YOU CAN SORT OF SEE ON THE CHART, THAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SORT OF A HOUSING TYPE THAT'S UNDER 1000FT■S VERSUS ONE THAT'S BETWEEN 1000 AND 1900, THERE'S ALMOST A 1500 $1,600 DIFFERENCE IN THE FEES THAT WE WOULD WOULD IMPACT. SO AGAIN, IT'S JUST A CONSIDERATION. COLIN WITH TISHA RICE WAS NOT ABLE TO JOIN US TODAY. HE IS WELCOMED. A NEW ADDITION TO THE FAMILY, BUT HE DID SHARE A COUPLE OF NOTES WITH US. AND I THOUGHT, BEFORE WE TURN THINGS OVER TO CITY ATTORNEY MICHAEL KIRKHAM, WHO HAS DONE SOME EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON WHAT DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS ARE USED BY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND SOME DIFFERENT THINGS WE WANT TO CONSIDER. I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND INFORMATION FROM FROM COLIN ON THIS MODEL OF USING SQUARE FOOTAGE IN HIS RESEARCH. IT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN IDAHO OR USED IN IDAHO FOR AT LEAST 15 YEARS. IN THE PAST, IT'S BEEN MOST COMMON IN RESORT TOWNS BECAUSE OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING CONSIDERATIONS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES. SO CURRENTLY IT'S NOT AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST, BUT COMMUNITIES LIKE SANDPOINT, HAYDEN, COEUR D'ALENE, BOISE, HAILEY, TETON COUNTY, VICTOR AND DRIGGS ALL USE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE SCHEDULE. AND MCCALL IS ANOTHER COMMUNITY THAT'S LOOKING AT IT, BUT IT'S NOT FORMALLY ADOPTED YET. ANOTHER APPROACH, OR THIS APPROACH ALLOWS CITIES TO ALSO CHARGE ADDITIONAL IMPACT FEES OR POTENTIALLY TO CHARGE ADDITIONAL IMPACT FEES AS A HOME IS EXPANDED. SO THAT'S AGAIN WHY SOME OF THE RESORT COMMUNITIES HAVE ADOPTED THIS. YOU CAN SORT OF USE A STARTER HOME. AND THEN AS IT'S EXPANDED AS THAT FAMILY SORT OF ONE BEDROOM CABIN BECOMES A, YOU KNOW, EIGHT BEDROOM CABIN, YOU CAN ASSESS THOSE ADDITIONAL IMPACT FEES. SO THERE THERE ARE THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY WITHIN THE MODEL ITSELF. BUT THIS ISN'T NEW. AS I
[00:10:07]
SAID, IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN USED OR THE COMMON HAS BEEN HAS SEEN BEEN USED IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. AND I THINK THAT. MR. KIRKHAM CAN GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL ABOUT JUST SOME OF THE DIFFERENT WAYS COMMUNITIES HAVE WRESTLED WITH THOSE WITH THOSE DEFINITIONS IN DIFFERENT WAYS TO SORT OF BREAK THOSE, THOSE DOWN. SO WE DO HAVE A PRESENTATION AND WE CAN GO TO THE FIRST SLIDE, I THINK, ON THAT AS WE TURN THINGS OVER TO YOU, HAVE YOU HAVE THE. OH GREAT. SORRY. AND I'LL GIVE THIS TO YOU AS YOU KIND OF CLICK THROUGH. BUT THIS WILL GIVE YOU SORT OF SOME JUST SOME BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON HOW DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES HAVE USED THIS, THIS MODEL. MOST COMMUNITIES, WHEN THEY'RE COMING UP WITH A DEFINITION OF WHAT SQUARE FOOTAGE MEANS, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE. THE FINISHED SPACE OF THE HOME. AND THAT GENERALLY MEANS THAT THIS IS THE AREA OF THE HOME THAT'S GOT AIR OR HEATING, AIR CONDITIONING, HVAC SYSTEM THAT'S CONTROLLING THE CLIMATE INSIDE THE HOME. AND WE SEE THAT BASICALLY EVERYWHERE THERE, WHEN THERE'S AN EXCLUSION FROM THAT SORT OF CLIMATE CONTROLLED AREA, IT'S GENERALLY HAPPENS TO BE THE GARAGE SPACE THAT'S INSIDE OF A HOME. THAT'S WHAT WE SEE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. SO AND COLIN WORKING WITH HIM, THAT'S WHAT HE'S SEEN COMMONLY TOO. THAT'S WHAT WE SEE CLOSE TO US. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT SANDPOINT OF COEUR D'ALENE DEFINITION, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY STANDARD THAT HOW YOU CALCULATE SQUARE FOOTAGE, IT'S THE KIND OF AIR CONDITIONED AIR HEATED PARTS OF THAT OF THE BUILDING. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO EXCLUDE SOMETHING, TYPICALLY THE GARAGE, THEN WE GO ON TO WHAT THE IMPACT FEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE TO DO. YES. OR YOU CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT MAYBE THE MLS BREAKDOWN. SURE. SO. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I LOOKED AT WAS WHAT IS THE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHAT IS FINISHED SPACE AND HOME? IS THE MLS. THE MULTIPLE LISTING SERVICE HAS A DEFINITION THAT THEY GIVE TO REALTORS TO ADVISE THEM ON HOW TO CALCULATE SQUARE FOOTAGE, AND THIS IS SPACE THAT'S INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN, THAT'S HEATED BY SOME KIND OF PERMANENTLY INSTALLED HEATING SYSTEM THAT'S DIRECTLY ACCESSIBLE FROM OTHER AREAS BY A DOOR, AND THAT IT'S FINISHED WITH ALL WALLS, FLOORS AND CEILINGS IN A FINISHED CONSTRUCTION. SO YOU'VE GOT SOME KIND OF FLOORING, YOU'VE GOT SOME KIND OF DRYWALL AND PAINT. THAT'S THAT'S SORT OF THE IDEA OF WHAT A REALTOR IS LOOKING AT. IF THEY'RE GOING TO ADVERTISE A HOME AS BEING FINISHED, RIGHT.IT'S A RECOMMENDATION. IT'S NOT THE LAW. IT'S KIND OF WHAT BEST PRACTICES IS VIEWED IN THE REALTY WORLD. SO IT WAS ANOTHER THING I LOOKED AT WHEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT FINISHED MIGHT MEAN TO SOMEONE. AND THE REASON WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE WAS VERY INSISTENT THAT THE CITY SHOULD NOT ADOPT A SQUARE FOOTAGE DEFINITION THAT INCLUDED CALCULATING UNFINISHED BASEMENTS. TYPICALLY, IN OUR COMMUNITY, IT'S REQUIRED THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD A HOME AND YOU'RE BUILDING A BASEMENT, EVEN IF YOU DON'T INTEND ON FINISHING THAT BASEMENT THAT YOU WOULD PROVIDE HEATING VENTS THROUGH THE HVAC SYSTEM TO HEAT THAT DOWNSTAIRS SPACE. AND YOU CAN PROBABLY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT'D BE A GOOD IDEA IF THE CLIMATE THAT WE'RE AT, YOU DON'T WANT FROZEN PIPES IN YOUR BASEMENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT BEING HEATED.
SO THE DEFINITION THAT'S COMMON ACROSS THE UNITED STATES WOULD ENCOMPASS ADDING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF AN UNFINISHED BASEMENT INTO THE DEFINITION OF WHAT SHOULD BE COUNTED TOWARD SQUARE FOOTAGE. THE IMPACT FEE COMMITTEE FELT LIKE THAT DIDN'T REALLY CAPTURE THE PECULIARITIES OF OUR AREA. AND SO THIS IS THE DEFINITION THAT THEY ARE RECOMMENDING TO THE COUNCIL TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE THAT YOU THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE BE CALCULATED BY AN AREA THAT'S CLIMATE, CLIMATE CONTROLLED BY A HEATING OR COOLING SYSTEM THAT'S DIRECTLY ACCESSIBLE FROM OTHER FINISHED AREAS THROUGH A DOOR, HALLWAY OR STAIRWAY THAT THE WALLS AND CEILINGS ARE COMPLETED WITH
[00:15:03]
INTERIOR DRYWALL OR OTHER GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE WALL FINISHES. IF YOU CAN SEE THAT THESE CAME DIRECTLY ON THE MLS KIND OF ADVICE, AND THEN IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY WANT IT TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT IN ADDITION TO ANYTHING THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THAT DEFINITION IS AN UNFINISHED SPACE, THAT AUTOMOBILE GARAGE SPACES SHALL NOT BE INCLUDED. SO THEY'RE CONCERNED THAT THE CITY WILL ADOPT A DEFINITION THAT WILL INCLUDE GARAGES AND UNFINISHED BASEMENT. THIS DEFINITION SEEMS TO ME A LITTLE BROADER THAN JUST EXCLUDING UNFINISHED BASEMENT.THIS COULD ALSO INCLUDE OTHER PLACES IN THE HOME THAT ARE UNFINISHED, LIKE MAYBE A BONUS ROOM THAT'S ABOVE A GARAGE IF IT LACKS DRYWALL WOULD ALSO FALL UNDER THIS DEFINITION. SO THIS IS NOT A UNDERGROUND DEFINITION, ONLY IT'S A LITTLE BROADER THAN THAT, BUT THAT THIS IS WHERE THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE SORT OF ENDED AS AN APPROPRIATE THING. MY TAKE ON THE LAW HERE IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO CAPTURE IS THE IMPACTS FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT. AND THE IDEA BEHIND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS THAT THE LARGER HOME IS, THE MORE PEOPLE YOU TYPICALLY SEE LIVING IN THE HOME. SO THAT CREATES THE IMPACT. AND SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADOPT THIS SORT OF DEFINITION, WHAT YOU'D NEED TO FIND IS THAT THE THESE UNFINISHED SPACES AND GARAGES DON'T CREATE IMPACTS. THEY DON'T LEAD TO MORE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE HOME. OR IF THEY DO, IT OCCURS LATER ON WHEN THEY'RE FINISHED. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO CAPTURE THOSE IMPACTS LATER.
BUT THAT'S JUST MY $0.02 ON HOW YOU SHOULD MAYBE LOOK AT THIS WITH A AN EYE ON WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE STATUTE SAYS. THE QUESTION. YEAH THAT'S GOOD. ARE YOU READY FOR QUESTIONS? SURE. AND I WOULD MAYBE INVITE DIRECTOR ALEXANDER TO MAYBE JOIN US JUST IN CASE THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE IMPACT, THE DELIBERATIONS. MR. KIRKHAM AND I BOTH ATTENDED MOST OF THOSE MEETINGS, BUT PAM IS REALLY THE LEAD SORT OF LIAISON WITH THAT WITH THAT GROUP. SO I INVITE HER TO JOIN IN THE CONVERSATION. I'M FASCINATED BY DOING IT, CAPTURING THEM LATER. I MEAN, I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE BECAUSE CURRENTLY, IF THEY'RE UNFINISHED, THEY'RE NOT HAVING MORE PEOPLE IN THEM YET. RIGHT? OR AT LEAST IT DOESN'T SEEM YOU ARE. AND SO I WONDER, TWO THINGS. THERE'S A BIT LESS GROWTH NEED WHEN THEY MOVE INTO SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED. YOU DON'T HAVE AS MUCH SEWER AND WATER, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. THEY PROBABLY USE AS MUCH ROAD AS ANYONE ELSE. SO IS IT ALLOWABLE UNDER THE LAW TO CAPTURE IT LATER, BUT HAVE IT IN A 70% OF WHAT THE WHAT THE SPACE WOULD COST? YOU NEED TO FIND A REASON WHY THAT WOULD BE. AND REMEMBER, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT FEES OR WHAT WE'RE COVERING BY THE IMPACT. SO WATER AND SEWER ARE NOT THERE ARE NO IMPACT FEES FOR WATER AND SEWER. OKAY. SO DOES IT. SO DOES IT STILL APPLY THEN? I MEAN IF THE PEOPLE AREN'T THERE. YEAH.
SO WHAT YOU WOULD BE SAYING IS AN UNFINISHED BASEMENT THAT'S BEING CONVERTED TO FINISHED SPACE. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT OUGHT TO BE CHARGED AT 70%, THEN YOU WOULD SAY THAT THAT A FINISHED BASEMENT ONLY CONTRIBUTES 70% OF AN IMPACT, THAT A OTHERWISE A STRUCTURE WOULD. BECAUSE WE DO WANT TO LIKE WITH OUR ADU AT WORK, WE WERE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THIS KIND OF BUILDING, AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DISCOURAGE IT BY ADDING. AND SO YOU COULD LOOK AT THIS AS AN ANALOGY TO OUR NON NON RESIDENTIAL IMPACT FEES. RIGHT NOW WE ASSESS THOSE ON A SQUARE FOOTAGE BASIS. AND IF YOU BUILD A NEW WING UP TO YOUR FACTORY THEN YOU PAY AN IMPACT FEE THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THE ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING ONTO YOUR FACTORY. SO YOU COULD SAY, YEAH, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHARGE YOU AN IMPACT FEE UP FRONT FOR YOUR UNFINISHED BASEMENT, WHICH ESSENTIALLY RIGHT NOW WE ARE DOING BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BIG YOUR HOME IS, EVERYONE PAYS THE SAME IMPACT FEE. THEN WHEN YOU COME IN AND APPLY FOR A PERMIT TO GET YOUR BASEMENT FINISHED, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A TIME THAT YOU WOULD PAY YOUR IMPACT FEE FOR THAT ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE. THE IDEA BEING THAT YOU'RE FINISHING THE BASEMENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOME CHILDREN, OR MAYBE YOU HAVE A PARENT MOVING IN, AND THAT WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE IMPACT THAT THE HOME HAS ON THE SYSTEMS. AND WE DID ASK COMMISSIONER SANDER,
[00:20:02]
I MEAN, DIRECTOR SAND, AND I APPRECIATE HIM BEING HERE JUST TO KIND OF LOOK AT NUMBERS ON PERMITTING FOR UNFINISHED BASEMENTS, BECAUSE ONE OF THE CONCERNS IS, HAS BEEN THAT THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY COME IN AND PULL A PERMIT WHEN THEY WHEN THEY FINISH THE BASEMENT. SO WE DO HAVE SOME DATA THAT, THAT THEY'VE GATHERED ON THAT, THAT WE HAVE. COMMISSIONER, OUR DIRECTOR, STANDARD TIME. I'M JUST NOT SURE. GREAT. SIR. YEAH, YEAH. NO PROBLEM. IT MAKES ME SOUND MUCH MORE THAN SO. YEAH. SO COUNCIL MEMBER RADFORD. SO WE LOOKED BACK FOR THE LAST, LAST YEAR OF 2024, AND THEN WE TOOK 2025 UP UNTIL JULY. IT WAS WHATEVER THE THURSDAY WAS, WAS THAT JULY 5TH OR JULY 3RD. SO THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL THAT WE HAD BUILT IN 2024 IS 30 SINGLE FAMILY UNIT, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UNITS, BASEMENT FINISHES THAT WERE PULLED WERE 24. AND THEN IN THIS CURRENT YEAR, SINGLE FAMILY IS 42 SINGLE FAMILY UNITS WITH 16 BASEMENT FINISHES PULLED, SO THAT TOTALS OUT TO 72 SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UNITS JUST WITHIN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF WITH 40 BASEMENT PULLS. NOW, SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT WITH THE BASEMENT FINISH. THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. ONE IS THAT BASEMENT FINISH PERMIT IS PROBABLY LAGGING. SO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTION THAT WAS DONE EVEN UP TO 20 YEARS AGO, BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON HOW LONG IT TAKES. SO WE DON'T TRACK THAT. THE OTHER ELEMENT IS DURING THE IMPACT, THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE THEY ASKED ABOUT WHAT DO PEOPLE ALWAYS PULL PERMITS. AND I, I ASSUME GOOD INTENT OF PEOPLE. BUT THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO. SOME PEOPLE DO NOT HOLD PERMITS ON THEIR BASEMENTS. AND TYPICALLY WHERE THAT'S FOUND IS AT THE TIME OF SALE. AND SO WHEN A HOUSE IS SOLD, THEN AS THEY GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS, THEY OFTEN REACH OUT TO US BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DISCLOSE ALL THE PERMITS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION. AND THAT'S OFTEN WHERE IT'S CAUGHT. AND SO I JUST BRING THAT UP, BECAUSE THERE COULD BE AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE'S A SALE OF A PROPERTY AND AN IMPACT FEE POTENTIALLY HAS NOT BEEN PAID. AND SO WE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ASSESS THAT. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF HOW OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DEAL WITH THAT? MY QUESTION FOCUSES ON DO YOU PRICE IT AS IT'S PRICED AT THAT POINT IN TIME, OR DO YOU TRY TO GO BACK AND PRICE IT? THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHEN THE IMPROVEMENT. WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE IMPROVEMENT IS MADE. ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT OR JUST BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE. IT WOULDN'T MATTER. RIGHT? IT'S NOT GOING TO VALUE. MATTER. YEAH. IT JUST MATTERS ON WHAT THE FINISHED LIVABLE SPACE IS OR WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AN IMPACT FEE. BUT THAT'S CAN BE TRICKY.IS ASSESSING AN IMPACT FEE ON SOMEONE WHO HAS BUILT THEIR BASEMENT OUT WITHOUT A PERMIT BECAUSE. WELL, I'LL TAKE IT. MY FRIEND JUST BOUGHT A HOUSE, AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK DONE ON THE HOUSE THAT HAD NO PERMITS DONE. AND. THE SELLER IS THE CHILDREN OF THE PERSON THAT LIVED THERE THAT PROBABLY DID ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS. SO THEY SAID, HAS THERE BEEN ANY WORK DONE ON THIS HOME THAT DIDN'T GET A PERMIT? AND THEY SAID, WELL, WE HAVE NO IDEA. IT'S OBVIOUS THAT IT WAS DONE. WHO DID IT AND WHEN DID IT HAPPEN? WELL, I MEAN, THAT GUY'S PROBABLY IN THE GROUND AND WHO KNOWS, RIGHT. SO IT UNLESS SOMEONE COMES AND PULLS A PERMIT, YOU'RE NOT LIKELY, IN MY OPINION, TO BE ABLE TO PULL AN IMPACT FEE BECAUSE IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO FIND A PERSON WHO IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. AS HOMES GO THROUGH CHANGES OF HANDS. BECAUSE YOU COULD ALSO HAVE A BUYER WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS BEING DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND WAYS THAT THOSE DON'T GET REPORTED TO THE CITY. SO WE DON'T REGULATE HOME SALES AT ALL. WE DON'T GET A COPY OF THE FACT THAT A HOME'S CHANGED HANDS. THE ONLY WAY THAT WE BECOME AWARE OF IT IS WHEN A TITLE CHANGE OCCURS AT THE COUNTY. WE GET AN UPDATE AT THAT POINT, AND I THINK THE OTHER CONSIDERATION THAT IF THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT IS JUST THAT WHEN THAT PERSON MAY COME IN TO, TO PULL THEIR BASEMENT PERMIT, THEN THEY'RE NOT ONLY PAYING THOSE PERMIT FEES, BUT POTENTIALLY THEY'RE PAYING, YOU KNOW, $1,000 OR MORE IN IMPACT FEES. AND THEY COULD EASILY ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING IN OUR HOUSE. WE'RE JUST SORT OF SPREADING
[00:25:01]
THEM OUT OVER TWO FLOORS NOW INSTEAD OF ONE FLOOR. SO AGAIN, THE OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE DEFINITELY USED THIS MODEL AND HAVE DEFINITELY COLLECTED THOSE FEES IN THE FUTURE AS HOMES HAVE EXPANDED THAT THERE ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST A NUMBER OF THINGS TO KIND OF THINK THROUGH AS WE LOOK TO FINALIZE THIS. AND THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER ONE, I THINK. JUST MAKE ONE COMMENT, IF I MAY, ABOUT AN ANECDOTE. A FRIEND OF MINE HAS A REALLY NICE THREE CAR GARAGE, RIGHT. IT'S VERY DEEP, AND HE'S GOT A POOL TABLE IN THERE AND A TELEVISION AND A COUCH. AND, YOU KNOW, SO IT IS LIVING SPACE AND IT IS HEATED AND SO IT'S NOT I MEAN, HE DOES PARK CARS IN THERE TOO, AND RVS AND BOATS. BUT YEAH IT'S ACTUALLY MIGHT BE FOR SIZED CROSS WITH A BIG DOOR. ANYWAY I'M JUST SAYING THAT YOU KNOW THERE'S STUFF'S GOING TO FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS. RIGHT? I MEAN WE'RE NOT GOING TO COVER EVERY SCENARIO. WELL, THERE'S GOING TO BE UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES OF ANY DEFINITION THAT YOU ADOPT. IT WON'T MATTER IF YOU ADOPT IT AS IF YOU KEEP THE DEFINITION AS IS. I MEAN, ONE THING THAT OUR COMMUNITY HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF IS THAT WE INCENTIVIZE MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING BECAUSE THE IMPACT FEE IS LESS FOR MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE, BUT. THERE WILL BE THERE WILL BE HAND WRINGING IN A COUPLE OF YEARS ON WHETHER OR NOT WHATEVER DEFINITION YOU COME UP WITH WAS THE RIGHT THING, OR WHETHER IT CAUSED A BUNCH OF SECONDARY EFFECTS THAT WERE UNFORESEEN. SO THAT'S SORT OF THE MISERY OF BEING A LEGISLATURE, KIND OF ON THE SAME LINE. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD. I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT HATE GARAGES, AND A LOT OF WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED. THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT KIND OF IS BECAUSE IT SPECIFIES IN THAT LAST COMMENT, AUTOMOBILE GARAGES. SO WHAT IF I HAVE AN OUTBUILDING THAT I STORE STUFF IN AND IT'S NICE, IT'S A NICE BUILDING. IT'S NOT FINISHED, BUT IT HAS LIGHTS. WHAT IF I HEAT IT? YOU KNOW, NOBODY LIVES THERE. IT'S NOT THE INTENT. DOES THAT NEED TO BE CALLED OUT IN ANY WAY IN AN ORDINANCE FOR ACCESSORY BUILDINGS? YEAH. THERE'S NOBODY BELIEVES THEY'RE INTENDED TO BE LIVED IN, BUT THEY MAY HAVE SOME OF THOSE CHARACTERISTICS. THEY MAY HAVE HEAT, THEY MAY HAVE LIGHTS, YOU KNOW, THEY WON'T KNOW SHEETROCK AND ALL THAT. PROBABLY. BUT THEY COULD, I GUESS. YEAH. MOST. MOST OF THE ORDINANCES THAT I'VE REVIEWED FOR IMPACT FEES DO NOT ADDRESS ACCESSORY BUILDINGS. I GUESS I'VE HEARD OF SHEDS WHERE PEOPLE GO AND DO THEIR HOBBIES OUT IN A SHED. THAT'S PRETTY NICE, AND IT FEELS A LOT LIKE A FINISHED LIVING SPACE. BUT IS IT ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING? I'M NOT TRYING TO REACH OUT AND CAPTURE THEM. WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS ELIMINATE THESE BAKERIES THAT ARE EASILY ELIMINATED. YOU COULD YOU COULD ADD ON HERE THAT ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE NOT INCLUDED, OR YOU COULD STRIKE OUT THE WORD AUTOMOBILE AND JUST SAY GARAGE SPACE. AND THAT COULD MEAN ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT MIGHT THAT MIGHT BE AN EASIER STORY. GARAGE SLASH STORAGE. OR AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO DROP CODE, BUT I CAUTION YOU FROM USING THE WORD ACCESSORY BECAUSE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS CAN BE BUILT AND THEY NEED TO HAVE PLUMBING AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS, SO THEY'RE MORE INVOLVED THAN MAYBE A HOBBY SHED WOULD BE. BUT THOSE WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE CITY'S TRANSPORTATION, PARKS, POLICE AND EMS SYSTEMS. AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE BIGGEST DRIVER IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE IMPACT THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE WAS, AND THEY WERE REALLY LOOKING AT AND MAYBE ARGUMENT THAT IT WAS AN ISSUE OF AFFORDABILITY THAT, YOU KNOW, REDUCING THAT IMPACT FEE ON THE STARTER HOME, THE HOUSE THAT'S LESS THAN 1000FT■S OF FINISHED SPACE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THAT HOUSE A LITTLE BIT MORE AFFORDABLE.BUT I THINK THAT WHAT WE'VE GOT AWAY IS SORT OF THE LONG TERM IMPACTS OF, OF THAT HOME. AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE. WHAT YOU SAID WERE NEAR 30 AND 30 HOMES BUILT IN A YEAR. AND YOU SAID, WELL, YEAH, THESE ARE ALL OUR PERMITTING US TO DATE. YEAH. SO WE'RE JUST NOT IT JUST ISN'T RIGHT FOR SINGLE FAMILY UNITS AT THIS POINT. BUT OUR HIGHEST YEAR MARK WAS AT IN THE 400. YEAH.
AND WE'RE SEEING THE SAME. YES. BUT WE'RE SEEING THE SAME TREND JUST I DIDN'T REPORT ON THIS, BUT YEAR TO DATE IN 2020 OR WERE STILL BUILDING HIGHER MULTIFAMILY THAN WE ARE SINGLE FAMILY. AND IT'S I MEAN WHAT IS THAT TO DO SOME QUICK MATH. I MEAN THAT'S ALMOST TEN TIMES, ALMOST TEN TIMES WHAT WE HAVE BUILDING SINGLE FAMILY RIGHT NOW. BUT THAT'S TOTALLY OUT OF THE NORM. YEAH, IT'S WHAT OUR TREND HAS BEEN FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. I THINK THAT TO TRY
[00:30:07]
AND PIN DOWN ONE SINGLE VARIABLE AS THE DRIVER FOR ANY OF THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OUT OF OUR, OUT OF OUR LEAGUE BECAUSE THERE ARE A GREAT MANY VARIABLES IN PLAY. ONE COULD ARGUE THAT IT'S WHEN WE PASSED THE MEDIAN COST OF A MEDIAN HOME, MEDIAN COST, WHATEVER I'M TRYING TO SAY HELP ME WITH. BUT WHEN WE PASS THAT LINE WHERE WE BECAME MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE STARTED SAYING, MULTIFAMILY IS WHAT I CAN AFFORD OR WHAT TO MY STARTER HOME OR LIVING SITUATION IS GOING TO BE. AND SO IT'S NOT ALL JUST IMPACT FEES DRIVING THE MARKET. BUT TAKEN TOGETHER, A LOT OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES CAN IMPACT SOMEONE'S DECISION. ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS WHY WE HAVE IMPACT FEES IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE HAVE THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE DETERMINED THAT THE COST OF MANAGING THE CITY OUTPACES A GROWING CITY LIKE OURS, OR OUR COSTS, I SHOULD SAY, ALSO NEED TO BE VERY SPECIFIC TO IDAHO FALLS. THOSE OUTPACE WHAT WE CAN BRING IN IN FEES AND TAXES, AND WE THOUGHT IT WISE TO SUPPLEMENT AND IMPACT THESE SEEMED A WAY TO DO IT. AND THERE WERE ALSO SOME TRADEOFFS. AND WHEN WE DID THAT RIGHT, SO WE STOPPED. WE HAD TO END SOME SOURCES OF REVENUE FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT THESE. SO THEY'RE NOT ALL ENTIRELY BRAND NEW COSTS ON TOP OF EVERYBODY. WE DEFINITELY THEY SUPPLANTED SOME OTHERS, BUT WE HAVE THEM THERE TO BE A SOURCE OF INCOME. AND WE HAVE THE STUDY DONE, AND IT GIVES US OUR POSSIBLE SOURCE OF INCOME. AND THEN WE OFFER NOW A SECOND TIME, OUR FINDING WAYS TO WHITTLE DOWN WHAT WE CAN BRING IN, WHICH MEANS THAT WE'RE BRINGING IN LESS THAN WHAT HAS BEEN PROJECTED AS OUR NEED FOR GROWTH. AND IF WE BRING IN LESS THAN WHAT WE NEED, WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE BUDGETARY SHORTFALLS THAT. ONE OF THE ONE OF THE REASONS WE WENT DOWN THIS PATH IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS TO AVOID THOSE SHORTFALLS. AND SO I AM CONCERNED IT COULD BE WHITTLE AWAY TOO MUCH. AND I'M WONDERING, BECAUSE I WASN'T ABLE TO, TO SUSS THIS OUT IN THE WAY THAT I HAD LOOKED AT THE I FIND THAT THE IMPACT FEE STUDY KIND OF DAUNTING. WHEN I THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE ASSUMPTIONS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT COLIN HAS ASSUMED IN TERMS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE GROWTH, HOW HE ARRIVED AT THAT NUMBER TO THEN COST IT OUT TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT OUR WHAT OUR THE VALUE OF A SQUARE FOOT WOULD BE. BUT AS WE WHITTLE AWAY, ARE WE WHITTLING AWAY AT SOMETHING WHERE HE WAS, HE ESTIMATED GENEROUSLY, OR ARE WE WHITTLING AWAY AT SOMETHING WHERE HE ESTIMATED RATHER TIGHTLY? AND WE REALLY WILL BE IMPACTING OUR ABILITY TO RAISE REVENUE? I'LL SAY SOME OF THOSE ASSUMPTIONS CAME OUT OF THE DATA THAT THE US CENSUS BUREAU COLLECTS. SO THE US CENSUS BUREAU DOES A. I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT CENSUS, BUT IT'S NOT THE CENSUS. THEY DO THEIR.AMERICAN COMMUNITY SURVEY WHAT'S GOING ON IT. BUT WHAT THEY DO IS THEY LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE HOMES, AND THEN THEY LOOK AT THE PEOPLE, NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING IN THOSE HOMES. SO THE UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION OF WHERE THOSE DOLLAR FIGURES ARE MADE ARE BASED OFF OF WHAT WE TEND TO SEE IN THE SIZES OF HOMES. AND THE LINE IS, IS KIND OF INTERESTING. SO YOU HAVE A, A HOME THAT'S UNDER 1000FT■S. YOU TYPICALLY SEE ONE PERSON LIVING IN THERE. AND THEN IT KIND OF GOES UP AND THEN IT STARTS LEVELING OUT. BECAUSE YOU BUILD A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME. THE SIZE OF AMERICAN FAMILY DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE THAT MUCH. SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NORMAL HOME AND SORT OF A LARGE HOME ISN'T REALLY THAT DIFFERENT. AND THE IMPACT FEE FOR THOSE TWO STRUCTURES REFLECTED IS ALSO NOT REALLY THAT DIFFERENT. SO YOU'LL SEE THE BIGGER CHANGES AND BIGGER SWINGS AT THE LOWER END AS YOU MOVE UP. AND THEN IT SORT OF LEVELS OFF THE ASSUMPTIONS ON HOW TO PEG THE GROWTH IS DRIVEN BY THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT'S GENERATED FROM A STRUCTURE FOR TRANSPORTATION. IT'S BASED OFF OF A DATA FOR THE PARKS IN A SIMILAR WAY AND CALLS FOR SERVICE FOR POLICE AND FIRE. SO THAT'S THAT'S A PEOPLE DESCRIBE IT BETTER. BUT THAT'S GENERALLY SPEAKING HOW WE GOT TO THE NUMBERS THAT WE DID AND HOW WE BUILT IN OUR ASSUMPTIONS FOR OUR STUDY. OKAY. SO NONE OF THOSE INPUTS ARE GOING TO CHANGE MUCH. AND IF WE CARVE OUT
[00:35:04]
DOLLARS WE REALLY ARE JUST IMPACT. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. SORRY. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO INFLUENCE THE IMPACT AS MUCH. THOSE IMPACTS ARE GOING TO BE WHAT THEY ARE, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY SQUARE FEET THE HOME HAS OR EXCUSE ME, REGARDLESS OF HOW WE COUNT THE SQUARE WE GO. BUT THE ABILITY FOR US TO RAISE MONEY WILL BE IMPACTED. SO I'M GOING TO LET WADE MAKE A COMMENT. OH, I WAS JUST I WAS JUST ADDING TO I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU, I APOLOGIZE. SO THEY PULLED THE CENSUS DATA, BUT THEY ALSO PERMITTED THEY PULLED OUR PERMITTING DATA AS WELL. SO THEY WERE LOOKING AT OUR TRENDS OF CONSTRUCTION. SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE AVERAGE HOME SIZE, BUT THEY'RE ALSO MIKE EXPLAIN IT ALL. WELL. SO I'M KIND OF BEATING THE DEAD HORSE BUT ALSO THE FAMILY SIZE AS WELL THAT THAT DIDN'T THAT DIDN'T GROW EXPONENTIALLY IN CONCURRENCE WITH THE SIZE OF THE HOME. AND THAT'S WHY THEY SAID THIS IS A BETTER ROUTE TO GO BECAUSE IT JUST PLATEAUS AND IT'S THE SAME. IT DOES STRIKE ME JUST ONE LAST THOUGHT, AS IN THIS ROUND OF THOUGHTS, BECAUSE WE'RE STILL IN TALKING AND THINKING ABOUT THIS, THAT THE IMPACT FEE IS A BIT REGRESSIVE. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WAY THAT A HOME LEVELS OFF, RIGHT. AND THE PEOPLE WHO BUILD THE LARGEST HOMES ARE PAYING A FEE THAT'S FLAT, RELATIVE OR EXCUSE ME, THAT THAT IS LESS PER SQUARE FOOT THAN THE PERSON WHO'S PAYING AT THE. THE LESS LEAST AFFORDABLE. AND SO, I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO EXEMPT SOMETHING, MAYBE WE EXEMPT HOMES OF A CERTAIN VALUE OR HOMES OF A CERTAIN SIZE OR WHATEVER WE THINK THE DRIVER IS FOR LOW INCOME OR ENTRY LEVEL, RATHER THAN JUST WILLY NILLY SAYING, NO GARAGES. NO, YOU KNOW, UNHEATED SPACE. NO. OR I DON'T KNOW, SHE SHEDS. MAYBE WE THINK ABOUT ANOTHER WAY TO GET AT OUR POLICY GOAL, IF THAT'S TRULY OUR POLICY GOAL, OR ARE WE JUST TRYING TO FIND A HANDY WAY TO REDUCE THE FEES? AND IF WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A HANDY WAY TO REDUCE THE FEES, THEN JUST BE AWARE THAT EVERY TIME WE REDUCE THE FEE, WE ARE UNDERMINING THE REASON WE IMPLEMENTED THE FEE. AND SO WE JUST NEED TO BE SMART. SMART, I GUESS IN THIS. AND I KNOW I'M STILL SAYING SOME THINGS THAT MAY NOT JIVE. I THINK I KNOW I JUST REGRESSIVE STATEMENT IS VERY INFORMED. I WHAT I CAUTION THE COUNCIL FROM DOING IS LOOKING AT THIS AS SOME SORT OF TAXING POLICY. YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SET A TAXING POLICY. ONLY THE LEGISLATURE DOES. THE LEGISLATURE HAS ESTABLISHED THE IMPACT FEE FEE STATUTE AS A WAY TO GET TO FIND AN APPROPRIATE CHARGE, IF THAT TURNS OUT TO BE WHAT AN ECONOMIST WOULD CALL REGRESSIVE OR PROGRESSIVE, DOESN'T MATTER.AND WHAT YOU SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON INSTEAD IS ADDRESSING THE IMPACTS TO YOUR IDENTIFIED SYSTEMS. SO THE CITY HAS FOUR IDENTIFIED IMPACT FEE SYSTEMS TRANSPORTATION, WHICH IS THE ROADS AND BRIDGES, PARKS, THE PARK SYSTEM, THE FIRE SYSTEM AND THE POLICE SYSTEM. AND SO THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FOCUSING ON. THANK YOU. YEAH. COUNCILOR FRAN, I HAVE A COMMENT AND THEN A QUESTION. SO THE COMMENT IS JUST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY. WE WANT TO WRITE THE ORDINANCE IN A WAY THAT. DOESN'T INVITE PEOPLE TO, TO GET AROUND IT, TO UNDERMINE IT IN SOME WAY AND TO SAVE MONEY THAT WAY. AND SO ONE OF THE PICTURES THAT AND MY QUESTION IS WHAT COMES TO MIND IS, OKAY, A TWO STORY HOUSE AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THE SUMMER OFF. AND AS LONG AS THE CONTRACTOR ROUGHED IN THE PLUMBING AND ROUGHED IN THE ELECTRIC AND I GOT IT APPROVED, I'LL DO ALL THE WALL BOARDING LATER. SO I HAVE MY WHOLE UPSTAIRS, AS IF WE'RE READING THIS, RIGHT? UNFINISHED. BUT IT'S INTENDED TO BE A LIVING SPACE FOR MY FAMILY. I'M JUST GOING TO HANG ON ON THE FIRST FLOOR FOR A WHILE UNTIL I FINISH THAT OFF MYSELF. AND I'M NOT GOING TO. I'M JUST GOING TO PUT WALLBOARD UP AND TAPE IT MYSELF BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. HAVE WE INVITED SOMEBODY TO CUT A CORNER, BY THE WAY? WE WROTE THE LAW, UNLESS WE ACCOUNT FOR THAT. WELL, IF THEY COME AND PULL A PERMIT AS THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO IN THE LAW. NO, BUT I'M DOING IT MYSELF. I JUST PUT ON PEOPLE SO THAT I'M NOT SAYING IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. I AM SAYING THAT'S A VIOLATION OF OUR LAW RIGHT NOW, THE VIOLATION OF THE BUILDING CODE TO PAY TO DO THAT. EVEN IF YOU OWN THE HOME AND YOU'RE THE OWNER, YOU DON'T NEED A LICENSE TO PERFORM THE WORK, BUT YOU DO NEED A PERMIT TO COMPLETE THE WORK. SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LICENSE TO WORK IN A PROFESSION. SO YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A CONTRACTOR IF YOU WANT TO DO WORK ON YOUR OWN HOME, WHERE IF YOU WANTED TO WORK ON OTHER PEOPLE'S HOMES, WE LICENSE YOU
[00:40:05]
TO BE A CONTRACTOR. BUT EVERYONE IS REQUIRED TO RECEIVE A PERMIT TO MAKE SOME PERMANENT ALTERATION TO THEIR HOME. WHETHER YOU ARE THE OWNER OR WHETHER YOU ARE IN THE WORK OF CONTRACTING AND YOU'RE WORKING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THOUGH. IT'S LIKE WE'RE ALMOST ENCOURAGING THEM NOT TO PULL A PERMIT BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO COST THEM MORE THAN IT DOES ALREADY, AND THERE'S ALREADY PEOPLE NOT PULLING A PERMIT BECAUSE OF THE COST. SO JUST MY QUICK THOUGHT. ONE POSSIBILITY IS. WE SAY LIVING SPACE OR POTENTIAL LIVING SPACE, AND THEN PUT THE EXCEPTION. GARAGES ARE OUT. BUT IF YOU HAVE A BASEMENT AND IT'S ACCESSIBLE WITH STAIRS OR DOORWAYS, ETC, THEN YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL LIVING SPACE. YOU PAY THE FEE, WHETHER YOU FINISH IT WHEN YOU FIRST DO IT OR YOU DO IT FIVE YEARS LATER, YOU CAN DO THAT. THAT'S WHAT MOST JURISDICTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY DO. THAT'S WHAT MOST CITIES ARE DOING. YES. SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY TAKE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE? DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO GET A PERMIT TO FINISH IT RIGHT NOW OR NOT, OR WHETHER YOU'RE PERMIT ASKS TO FINISH IT.IRRELEVANT. MOST COMMUNITIES IN THE UNITED STATES, WOULD THEY HAVE AN IMPACT FEE TO ASSESS RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ON A SQUARE FOOTAGE BASIS, ESTABLISH THE FINISHED LIVING SPACE? IS ANY SPACE THAT'S BEING HEATED OR COOLED? THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT. AND OUR IMPACT FEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE FELT LIKE THAT WOULD NOT WORK FOR THE CITY OF IDAHO FALLS BECAUSE IN OUR BUILDING CODE, WE REQUIRE BASEMENTS TO BE HEATED REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE FINISHED OR NOT, IN PART BECAUSE OF THE CLIMATE. WE DON'T WANT FROZEN PIPES IN PEOPLE'S HOMES. AND THEY SAID, IF YOU DO THAT, THEN ALL UNFINISHED BASEMENTS WILL BE REQUIRED TO BE CALCULATED INTO THE IMPACT FEE.
THAT WILL MAKE THE IMPACT FEE TOO EXPENSIVE. SO THEY RECOMMENDED THAT COUNCIL ADOPT KIND OF A BLENDED DEFINITION WITH THE MLS RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD NOT COUNT UNFINISHED SPACES IN A HOME. CAN I THROW OUT A THOUGHT ON THAT ONE? MAKE IT TOO EXPENSIVE. SO IF WE PRICE IT, I KNOW THAT'S A WORD, BUT THAT'S THE WORD. I KNOW THAT WE SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO COVER ALL IMPROVEMENTS, THEN WE JUST PRICE IT SUCH THAT WE'RE NOT COSTING TOO MUCH. IF YOU GET WHERE I'M GOING. SURE. SO WE ADJUST THE PRICE PER SQUARE FOOT BECAUSE WE KNOW WE'RE CAPTURING ALL THE SQUARE FEET. WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT TRYING TO CAPTURE IT LATER. AND AGAIN, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON HOW YOU'RE GOING TO CAPTURE THE IMPACT FROM THE STRUCTURE, AND NOT WHAT THE DOLLAR VALUE OF YOUR FEE IS. SO IF YOU ARE ADJUSTING IT FROM SQUARE FOOTAGE, THAT SHOULD BE BECAUSE YOU'VE MADE A DECISION THAT THE FEE THAT'S BEEN RECOMMENDED BY EXERCISE IS TOO HIGH BECAUSE IT CAPTURES MORE THAN WHAT THE STRUCTURE IS, IMPACT IS. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT CHART ON PAGE 14 OF THE DRAFT, STUDY IT TO IN ORDER TO KIND OF REACH THAT MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE. IT SHOWS, YOU KNOW, PER SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE IMPACTS, THE COST OF THE IMPACTS FOR PARKS AND REC, TRANSPORTATION, POLICE AND FIRE EMS. IT BREAKS IT DOWN TO GET TO THE TO GET TO THE TOTAL. THAT SORT OF INCLUDED IN THAT THOSE CONSIDERATIONS ARE INCLUDED IN THAT IN THAT TOTAL. BUT TISCHLER BICE HAS NOT COME BACK TO US.
AND GIVEN WHAT I ASKED FOR OF, I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE 100% WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR OUR LAST STUDY, WHICH WE CHARGED 75% EXCEPT FOR TRANSPORTATION. IF THAT NUMBER LOOKS HIGHER, THAT CHART COMES OUT TO BE QUITE DIFFERENT. THERE'S A COLUMN MISSING IN MY MIND, BECAUSE IF I KNEW THAT, I'D SEE, LIKE IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, AT LEAST ONE OF THE 1 OR 2 OF THE LOWEST LEVEL SQUARE FOOTAGE IS ACTUALLY A REDUCTION FROM EVEN OUR 75. YES. THEN IT STARTS TO GROW. YES. BUT HOW WOULD IT BE IF WE HAD WE IF WE'D DONE 100%, WHICH IS THE COMPARISON, BECAUSE WE MIGHT SAY, WELL, WE'RE DOING 75% AGAIN, WHATEVER WE DECIDE. BUT THAT'S THE WAY I WOULD LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP ME KNOW. WHAT IT WOULD MEAN TO SAY ALL POTENTIAL LIVING SPACES, PERIOD.
IT'S THE LEAST IT'S THE MOST ENFORCEABLE FOR EVERYBODY. IT'S EQUITABLE, AS I SEE IT. AND I'M JUST AFRAID OF INVITING SHORTCUTS. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THE SHORTCUT IS IF YOU SOMEHOW ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, I'M JUST BUYING MY WALLBOARD AND I'M DOING IT. THEN WE'RE WE'RE NOT WE'RE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING THAT COULD BE NOT SAFE. SO THE CEILING FALLS DOWN.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKELY THAT IT'S POSSIBILITY. DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT? YEAH, I
[00:45:06]
DON'T KNOW. I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT THE INSPECTION, THE REASON WE SHOULD PROBABLY DO MORE TO ENFORCE PERMITTING, IF THAT'S YOUR CONCERN, BECAUSE I THINK THE IMPACT DOESN'T COME UNTIL SOMEONE MOVES IN. RIGHT. AND SO IF THE FAMILY DOESN'T GROW ANY, THEN I DON'T HAVE THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM WITH UNFINISHED SPACE. IF THEY COULD OF LIVED IN, YOU KNOW, THE THOUSAND SQUARE FEET VERSUS 1200 SQUARE FEET. BUT ONE THING THAT CAME TO MIND WHEN WE WERE TALKING WAS MAYBE WE GO AFTER PERMIT FRAUD AND SAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY 200% OF IMPACT FEES BECAUSE YOU AVOIDED IT, OR SOMETHING. YOU COULD DO IT. YOU COULD. NATURE COMES IN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T DOUBLE IMPACT FEE. BUT YOU MIGHT FIND SOMEONE CRIMINALLY FOR DOING THE WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. YEAH. BECAUSE IT HAD THE IMPACT THAT WE DIDN'T GET TO HAVE THAT IMPACT FEE AND THE DOLLARS. SO THAT WAS ONE THING THAT I WANTED. BUT YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST PICTURE SOMEBODY.YOU JUST I SAW YOU GET A DELIVERY FROM HOME DEPOT OF YOU HAD TO BE DOING IT. SO THE PERMIT PEOPLE SHOW UP AND SAY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YEAH. KNOCK, KNOCK. YEAH. WE DO THAT OCCASIONALLY. WE CATCH PEOPLE THAT ARE PERFORMING WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. I THINK WE HAVE TO DO THAT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, OR ELSE NO ONE WOULD. YEAH. WE IT'S BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM. SO IF SOMEBODY IS IN VIOLATION. SO ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT IS COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS IS THEY HAVE TO MEET THE BUILDING CODE. RIGHT. AND SO THEIR CONSTRUCTION, HOW THEY HOW THEY DO THE CONSTRUCTION, HOW THEY PULL THE PERMIT, A LICENSED CONTRACTOR, ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE TAKING PLACE. IF THAT ISN'T DONE, THEN WE DO FIND THEM. THERE IS A ALREADY IN THE PERMIT FEE. IT'S NOT ATTACHED TO THE IMPACT FEE, BUT IT IS. IT IS PART OF THE PROCESS AND THE END RESULT IS GETTING THAT C OF ZERO. SO THAT CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS THE KEY AFTER TYPICALLY WHEN WE'VE GOT FOLKS THAT HAVE PERFORMED WORK WITHOUT PERMITS, INSTEAD OF HAULING THEM IN FRONT OF A JUDGE AND JURY, WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE, AND WE'D RATHER HAVE THEM SPEND THEIR MONEY ON MAKING SURE THAT THEIR BUILDING SAFE AND PAYING A CRIMINAL FINE. BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE. UTTERLY OPPOSED TO FOLLOWING THE LAW, WE DO ENFORCE. YEAH. HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO KNOW OUR SUCCESS RATE WITH ENFORCEMENT OR OUR RATE OF VIOLATIONS. WE HAVE ABOUT 30,000 UNITS IN THE CITY. WE JUDGE BY THE NUMBER OF ELECTRIC METERS THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE, AND THERE'S JUST NOT IT'S NOT POSSIBLE FOR US TO POLICE ALL ACTIVITIES INSIDE THE WALLS OF PEOPLE'S HOMES AND BUSINESSES, AND GUESS WE'LL CATCH THEM. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE CATCHING ALL, AND I DON'T THINK WE'LL EVER GET THERE UNLESS WE'RE WILLING TO CREATE A BIG BROTHER STATE. AND I DON'T THINK WE ARE. AND SO I DO THINK THAT THE EFFICIENCY OF A LAW IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN WE'RE ENACTING IT. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO PRODUCE A RATE OF QUOTE VIOLATION, WE NEED TO DO IT WITH OUR EYES WIDE OPEN AND NOT BE SURPRISED WHEN THERE ARE VIOLATIONS, BECAUSE WE'VE INCENTIVIZED. AND SO I DO THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
BUT JOHN, I KIND OF DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT WE CAN JUST BEEF UP OUR INSPECTIONS. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT WITHOUT KNOCKING DOOR TO DOOR. NO, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO GET TO ZERO. REMEMBER, WE'RE ONLY 30 HOMES BUILT LAST YEAR IF THIS WOULD APPLY TO YOU. SO TO ME, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS SAY, DON'T DO IT BECAUSE THESE COULD BE THE OUTCOMES, RIGHT? THE DETERRENT OF ANY LAW IS, HEY, IF I GET CAUGHT. AND SO BUT THE REASON I'M TRYING TO FIND A MIDDLE GROUND IS BECAUSE THEY CAME TO US. THE IMPACT FEE COMMITTEE, WE'VE APPOINTED AND ASKED US TO DO THIS. AND IT'S ONLY ON 30 HOUSES A YEAR. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE A HUGE IMPACT TO ME THAT I CAN SEE BY THE PEOPLE WHO GET AWAY WITH IT. BUT 16 OR 30, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE IN THAT RANGE. AND SO TO ME, IF IT'S ASKED FOR AND IT'S A SOUNDS LIKE LESS THAN $30,000, PROBABLY. WELL, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS WE'RE CHANGING AND CHANGING THE CRITERIA, BECAUSE IF WE SAY THIS IS A FEE FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, THIS WELL, THAT'S ALREADY GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE HAVE IT NOW, RIGHT? RIGHT. SO THAT'S ALREADY TRUE. BUT IN OTHER WORDS, IT WOULDN'T BE TO MY ADVANTAGE TO TRY TO NOT FINISH PART OF MY HOUSE AND JUST YES, YES. BUT IT WILL BE IF WE CHANGE THE RULE AND ENCOURAGE IT SOMEHOW, BY THE WAY WE WRITE IT. THERE MIGHT BE OTHER WAYS TO FIGURE OUT, WELL, IF YOU DIDN'T, THEN YOU SHOULD. THERE ARE PROBABLY OTHER WAYS TO DESCRIBE WHAT'S WHAT YOU CONSIDER FINISHED, AND MAYBE YOU WANT TO SAY THAT YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO YOU'RE ONLY. THIS IS AN EXPLICITLY BASIC RULE. YOU COULD SAY SQUARE FOOTAGE OF RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE SHALL BE DETERMINED BY THE FINISHED SPACE, BY THE SPACE OF ABOVE
[00:50:04]
GRADE, AND FINISH SPACE BELOW GRADE AND FINISH SPACE MEANS SOMETHING LIKE THIS. AND YOU COULD DO IT. YOU COULD MAKE IT SO THAT IF SOMEBODY SAYS, I'M GOING TO BUILD A TWO STORY HOME AND I'M REALLY GOING TO GET THE CITY BY NOT FINISHING MY SECOND FLOOR, YOU CAN JUST SAY, WELL, NO, WE'RE GOING TO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE SOMEPLACE YOU LIVE. BUT A BASEMENT. I'VE BEEN I'VE BEEN IN HOMES WHERE I'M SURPRISED THAT THE BASEMENT IS NOT FINISHED. AND I'M LIKE, HOW LONG YOU'VE LIVED HERE? OH, 30 YEARS. WE RAISED EIGHT KIDS HERE. IT'S LIKE, GOSH, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DID THAT. BUT AND ONE THING WE JUST WANT TO CLARIFY ON THE NUMBERS THE DIRECTOR CAN DO THAT IS THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KIND OF PERMITTED AND CONSTRUCTED. SO THE 30 ISN'T NECESSARILY REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL THE HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTED AS THOSE THAT HAVE RECEIVED THEIR PERMIT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? TELL ME WHY. BECAUSE WE ONLY GET PAID IMPACT FEES, AMOUNT OF PERMITS. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THE NUMBER OF PERMITS IS WHAT I SHOULD WORRY ABOUT. YEAH. AND YOU SAID THAT WAS 30. YEAH. YEAH. SO SINGLE FAMILY OF 2024 WAS 30. YEAH. SO YEAH. SORRY I'M JUST ARGUING BECAUSE WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS AND I DEAL WITH PEOPLE EVERY DAY. WE'RE TRYING TO FIND HOUSING THAT'S AFFORDABLE. AND IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ASKING, AND THE PRODUCERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO BUILD AND DEVELOP ARE ASKING US THIS, AND THEY THINK IT COULD HELP. AND THAT'S WHERE I'M OKAY WITH IT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S SUCH A SMALL AMOUNT OF DOLLARS. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 30 PERMITS PULLED. AND 16 OF THEM SAID THEY WERE FINISHING A BASEMENT, SO YOU WOULD GET IT. THEN IF WE DID THAT, IF WE SAID, HEY, WE WANT TO CAPTURE THIS. AND TO BE CLEAR, THOSE 16 PROBABLY ARE NOT THE SAME. 30 THEY MIGHT BE. IT COULD BE A HOME THAT WAS BUILT IN THE 70S. BUT TO YOUR POINT, IT'S STILL CAPTURING THE IMPACT, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF THEY'RE BUILDING IT NOW AND SOMEONE'S MOVING IN, THEN IT'S THE IMPACT. SO REGARDLESS OF WHICH HOUSE IT WAS. RIGHT. SO THAT'S MY THOUGHTS. I JUST THINK I'M GOING TO TRY TO ARGUE FOR THAT. JUST AN EDUCATION QUESTION. HOMEOWNER COMES IN AND SAYS, HEY, I'M READY TO FINISH MY BASEMENT. I WANT TO PULL UP FOR IT. DOES THAT STIPULATE THAT THE ELECTRICITY IS GOING TO BE DONE OR IS ALREADY DONE, THAT THE HVAC IS THAT KNOWN ON THAT PERMITTING PROCESS, AS WAS STATED, THAT AC AND HEATING IS ALREADY INSTALLED, BUT THE WHAT IF IT ISN'T? IT HAS TO DO. IT'S REQUIRED IN THE STATE OF IDAHO TO BE IN. SO THE HVAC IS IN. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THE ELECTRICAL IS THE ONE THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY PULLED THROUGHOUT THE ROOMS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO I'VE BEEN OUT ON AN INSPECTION WITH OUR ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR. AND YOU CAN DO THAT AS A HOMEOWNER. YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO OWNER BUILD. SO YOU CAN DO ALL OF THAT WORK AS THE HOMEOWNER. BUT WE DO EXPECT IT. SO THEY THEY TOLD US WAS LOOKING TO LAND US. SO IF IT'S IF IT'S DISCLOSED THAT THE ELECTRICITY HAS TO BE DONE OR THAT THEY HAVE TO FRAME OUT, THEY DO DRYWALL, THERE'S FRAMING. YEP, YEP. SO FRAMING, WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE INSPECTED AS WELL. YES OKAY. THANK YOU I WILL HAVE TO BE INSPECTED.THAT'S THAT'S PART OF THE FINAL. THAT'S THE. SO IT'S THE SAME WITH FRAME. SO THEY DO FRAMING AND THEN THEY'LL COME BACK. THERE'S USUALLY TWO. YOU HAVE AN INSPECTION BEFORE YOU PUT UP THE DRYWALL. AND THAT'S WHERE THEY CATCH THE ELECTRICAL WORK OR PLUMBING WORK OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE BEHIND THE DRYWALL. AND THEN YOU HAVE A FINAL WHEN THEY COME AND LOOK AT THE DRYWALL, AND THAT'S WHEN YOU GET YOUR SIGN OFF ON IT. SO THAT'S THE PROTECTION FOR THE NEXT BUYER THAT YES, THAT'S EVERYTHING BEHIND THE WALL IS SAFE. IS THAT WAS PRESUMABLY IF YOU'RE FOLLOWING THE LAW, YOU PULLED THE PERMIT AND A PROFESSIONAL SCOUT TRAINING HAS COME IN AND SAYS, YEAH, THE WIRES LOOK CORRECT. SO THIS IDEA DOESN'T ORIGINATE WITH ME. BUT THINKING ABOUT IS THERE ANY STATISTIC THAT WOULD SUGGEST, AS I ENVISIONED IT IN MY OWN HEAD, IF I BUILD A SECOND FOYER STORY ON MY HOUSE, I'M ASSUMING THAT THE FAMILY IS GOING TO BE LIVING UPSTAIRS. IF I FINISH OFF THE BASEMENT, MAYBE THEY'RE WATCHING TV DOWNSTAIRS. IT MIGHT NOT IMPACT THE SIZE OF THE FAMILY YOU JUST START WITH. SO IS IT POSSIBLE TO SAY, OKAY, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH YOUR BASEMENT, THERE'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT YOU PAY FOR BASEMENTS, PERIOD. AND EVERYTHING ABOVE GRADE IS FULL FEE. YEAH. SO AGAIN, THE PURPOSE OF THE IMPACT FEE IS TO CAPTURE IMPACTS ON THE SYSTEMS. SO COULD YOU MAKE A FINDING THAT THE BASEMENTS DON'T CONTRIBUTE AN IMPACT BECAUSE THEY'RE THEY DON'T THEY DON'T INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THERE. THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE IMPACT FEES ASSUMPTIONS, WHICH IS THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE IS WHAT DRIVES THE SIZE OF HOUSEHOLDS. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T COLLECT DATA THAT WOULD SUPPORT YOUR IDEA. WE WOULD NEED TO COLLECT THE DATA. YEAH, THAT'S NOT THE DATA WE'VE GOT. IS THAT DATA THAT'S I DON'T KNOW. WE NEED TO GO LOOK. SO I DON'T KNOW
[00:55:03]
IF THERE IS DATA THAT'S THAT WOULD HELP US FIND OUT WHETHER BASEMENTS INCREASE THE SIZE OF HOUSEHOLDS OR NOT. IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. IF YOU'D LIKE STAFF TO LOOK INTO THAT, WE CAN WE DEFINITELY DON'T TRACK THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T TRACK FAMILY, THAT WE JUST DON'T DEFINE FAMILY. AND SO BUT NATIONALLY, IS THERE ANY REALTORS WOULD HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE? I DON'T KNOW, IT'S JUST A WILD IDEA. I'M STILL TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE WORKING IT THROUGH. YEAH. THE ONLY THING THAT WE COULD REALLY CORRELATE WITH THAT IS YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE FAMILY SIZE FOR THAT AREA. THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY DATA WE HAVE. OKAY. SO YEAH, IT DOESN'T REALLY. WELL THE STUDY DOES THAT RIGHT. YEAH. YEAH. THE STUDY IS THE STUDY DOES A LOT OF. THE FACTS UPON WHICH THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS ARE BASED, ARE, ARE BASED OFF OF THE SIZE OF HOUSEHOLDS IN AND THE SIZE OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IN WHICH THOSE HOUSEHOLDS ARE LIVING IN. AND THAT'S THAT'S WHERE WE COME UP WITH THAT CURVE THAT SAYS, OH, WELL, IN A HOUSE THAT'S 3500FT■!S, WE'D EXPECT TO SEE, I THINK, WHAT IS IT, 2.8, 2.8 PEOPLE LIVING IN THAT STRUCTURE? WELL, WHY 2.8? WELL, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SOME HOUSES MIGHT HAVE FIVE, SOME HOUSES MIGHT HAVE ONE. BUT THE AVERAGE OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN A STRUCTURE THAT HAS 3500FT■S AND IS 2.8, RIGHT. SO IF YOU'RE IF YOU SAY, WELL, THAT'S INTERESTING, BUT DOES THAT CHANGE IF A BASEMENT IS INCLUDED, WE'D NEED TO GO FIND A DATA SET THAT BROKE OUT SQUARE FOOTAGE ABOVE AND BELOW GROUND. WHETHER THAT DATA EXISTS, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S NOT THE DATA THAT WE'VE GOT. I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD TO FIND THAT PARTICULAR DATA SET BASED ON WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND WHAT DATA THAT PETITIONER HAS BEEN ALREADY INCORPORATED. WELL, I GUESS ONE THING THAT WE COULD SAY, OR THAT WOULD MAKE IT ENFORCEABLE AND ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET PERMITS WHEN THEY DO IT, IS IF YOU BUILD ABOVE GRADE, YOU'RE PAYING A FEE FOR THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE, EVERYTHING ABOVE GRADE. AND THEN WE STILL HAVE THE BASEMENT THAT YOU WORK OUT. BUT THAT WOULD BE ONE PART OF IT. IF YOU'D LIKE. I COULD PLAY OUT, PLAY AROUND WITH DIFFERENT WAYS TO FIGURE OUT SQUARE FOOTAGE. I COULD MAKE A RULE THAT MAKES IT REALLY CLEAR THAT WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT BASEMENTS. BASEMENTS WERE THE CONCERN THAT DRIVING THE IMPACT THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, WOULD YOU SAY ALL ABOVE GRADE SPACE, INCLUDING GARAGES, OR WOULD YOU STILL I WOULD EXEMPT GARAGES. I THINK IT'S A SIMPLER. OKAY. AND IT'S BACK TO MY PREMISE. I WANT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ENFORCE AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO OBEY THE LAW, LIKE IF I'VE ALREADY PAID MY PERMIT, I MEAN, IF I'VE ALREADY PAID MY IMPACT FEE, I'LL GO GET THE PERMITS FOR WHEN I FINISH MY UPSTAIRS OR WHATEVER THE PURPOSE OF THIS DISCUSSION IS TO REACH, IDEALLY, WOULD BE TO REACH A CONSENSUS ON WHAT THE COUNCIL WANTED TO SEE IN THE ORDINANCE.THERE ARE, I GUESS, A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN GET AT IT. WE CAN STAY HERE AND TALK ABOUT THIS UNTIL EVERYBODY IS 100% AGREEMENT ON EVERYTHING, WHICH I'M NOT SAYING IS THAT WE CAN DO IT. I MADE IT SOUND LIKE IT'S OMINOUS OR SOMETHING, BUT WE CAN DO THAT. WE CAN KEEP TALKING UNTIL WE PRETTY MUCH FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT EACH ASPECT. ANOTHER IS THAT WE MAYBE BREAK THIS INTO FOUR PIECES THAT THEY BROKE IT INTO, AND MAYBE DO A STRAW POLL RIGHT NOW AND SEE WHERE YOU GUYS ARE. ON WHETHER YOU WANT TO INCLUDE OR NOT. IF YOU FEEL SO INCLINED TO BREAK THIS UP OR ANOTHER WOULD BE TO SAY, HOW ARE YOU? HOW INCLINED ARE YOU TO TAKE THIS TOTAL PACKAGE VERSUS SOME OTHER PACKAGE THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER? BUT I GUESS I'D LIKE TO STEER US TOWARD FIGURING OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO ARRIVE AT A DECISION. AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MADE TODAY, BUT IF WE CAN ARRIVE AT SOME KIND OF A DECISION TODAY, THAT'D BE WONDERFUL, BECAUSE IT WOULD KEEP US MOVING ALONG ON OUR SCHEDULE TO GET THE IMPACT FEES IMPLEMENTED BY JANUARY 1ST. BUT THE ONLY OTHER THING I'D SAY IS, YOU KNOW HOW SOMETIMES WE'VE BEEN CAUTIONED BY WISE PEOPLE ABOUT WHO UNDERSTAND CITY GOVERNMENT IN THE PAST. THEY'VE SAID, PUT ON THE BACK OF YOUR WALL, NOT SO THAT THE AUDIENCE IN THE ROOM CAN SEE IT, BUT SO THAT THE COUNCIL, WHEN THEY'RE SITTING AT THE DAIS, CAN SEE, REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T IN THE ROOM. I THINK THE THING THAT FOR THIS DISCUSSION, I THINK THAT WE WOULD PUT ON THE WALL IS WHEN I HEARD OUR, OUR EMPLOYEES, OUR STAFF PULL US BACK TO AND THAT IS REMEMBER THE REMEMBER TO KEEP THE IMPACTS FOREMOST IN MIND. WE ARE TRYING TO MITIGATE OUR IMPACTS. THAT'S
[01:00:03]
WHAT THE FEES ARE DOING. AND COLIN HAS IDENTIFIED WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE OUR FUTURE IS AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE THAT FUTURE IS GOING TO COST. AND ANYTHING WE DON'T COLLECT IN IMPACT FEES, WE COLLECT IN TAXES TO MAKE THE FUTURE TO PAY FOR THE FUTURE. AND SO IT'S GOING TO HIT EITHER THE HOME PURCHASERS OR IT'S GOING TO GET THE TAX BASE AS A WHOLE. AND THERE ARE PROS AND CONS TO EITHER APPROACH, BUT KEEP THAT IN MIND WITH WHATEVER WE PUT FORWARD. WOULD YOU LIKE TO BREAK THIS INTO PIECES, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THIS VERSUS SOME OTHER PROPOSAL, OR DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER IDEAS? I KNOW, LISA, YOU'RE A THINKER ON THIS AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU MUCH YET, BUT DO YOU SEE A PATH FORWARD THAT MIGHT BE EFFICIENT? WELL, THE CONVERSATION REALLY ACTUALLY DID GET ME THINKING THAT. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT THE SPACE BETWEEN UNDER 1001 THOUSAND UP TO 2000, BECAUSE THAT'S A DOUBLE, RIGHT. WE'RE GOING FROM 1000 TO 2000. SO WE'RE DOUBLING OUR SQUARE FOOTAGE. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A HOUSE THAT'S 2000 TO 3000FT■S, NOW YOU'RE INTO THE 1500 RANGE OF THE UPSTAIRS AND THE DOWNSTAIRS. SO WHEN I WENT BACK, JUST AS WE WERE TALKING, IF WE WERE COLLECTING THE CURRENT AMOUNT AT 100%. SO I, I HAVE DONE THOSE NUMBERS. I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S VALUABLE TO JUST TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND MAYBE WORK ON THOSE NUMBERS, BECAUSE THE CURRENT LEVEL VERSUS THE PROPOSED, THERE IS A MORE SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS RIGHT HERE IN OUR ON PAGE 14, IT SAYS 799. BUT IN ACTUALITY, IF WE WERE COLLECTING AT 100%, IT'S 1335.AND THEN THE CURRENT VERSUS THE PROPOSED IS ONLY LIKE A $200 INCREASE. IF WE WERE, WE'RE 100% OF OUR CURRENT AS OPPOSED TO THE 795. AND I REALLY FEEL LIKE THOSE ARE THE TWO NUMBERS THAT THAT WE'RE REALLY THAT ARE REALLY VALUABLE TO US. THAT'S MY THOUGHT. IS THAT UNDER 1000 OR 1000 TO I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO REALLY INFLUENCE PEOPLE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD A 3000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE OR A 6000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. I THINK THAT'S THAT.
DOUBLING IS THE. IS NOT GOING TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE. I THINK THAT'S A SOCIOECONOMIC ISSUE. SO I'M MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT HAPPENS IF THOSE FIRST TWO NUMBERS BETWEEN THE CURRENT FEE, WHICH AT 100% IS 34, 79, JIM, AS OPPOSED TO THAT, 2943. SO ARE WE GOING TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO. TO BUILD, YOU KNOW, UNDER 1000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE AND THEN NOT FINISH BASEMENT? OR ARE WE JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE, WHAT IS THAT? WHAT IS THAT EXTRA $1,300 DO? SO I REALLY THINK WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THOSE FIRST COUPLE OF LINES OF WHETHER OR NOT WE THINK THAT THE IMPACT. UNDER 1000 SQUARE FOOT, YOU DON'T HAVE A VERY BIG IMPACT ON THE CITY, BUT 1000 TO 2000 SQUARE FOOT IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. YEAH, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. THE OTHER THING THAT I JUST REVIEWED WAS SOME STATES ARE DOING, SOME CITIES ARE DOING THERE'S A BEDROOM OR, OR IF YOU CAN COUNT IT AS A BEDROOM OR A BASEMENT, BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE UP THERE. SO THAT WAS ANOTHER ELEMENT. THAT WAS ONE OTHER ONE THAT I HAD WRITTEN DOWN AS A POTENTIAL NOTE. IS YOUR INGRESS AND EGRESS WINDOWS IN THE BASEMENT? KIND OF THERE'S A I MEAN, THAT THAT'S A THAT'S A SOMEWHAT SYMBOLIC OF FINISHING WHETHER THEY PULL THE PERMIT OR NOT. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE IF YOU HAVE YOUR STORAGE ROOM DOWNSTAIRS AND YOU HAVE YOUR FURNACE ROOM DOWNSTAIRS AND ALL THAT STUFF, IT'S NOT REALLY LIVABLE. BUT IF YOU'VE GOT THREE INGRESS WINDOWS, YOU CAN SAY, WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU THEN CALCULATE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE BECAUSE EGRESS WINDOW, BUT BUT IT'S JUST THE OTHER IDEA THAT YOU DON'T HAVE. AND DEPENDING ON HOW BAD SOMEBODY WANTS TO AVOID, BREAK THE LAW. AND THIS MAY NOT BE VERY BIG.
THEY MAY PUT SMALL WINDOWS OR NO WINDOWS OR STILL PUT SOMEBODY IN WHERE THERE WASN'T THAT. I THINK THAT'S MORE I THINK THAT'S WAY MORE DANGEROUS IN THERE ANYWAY THAN ADDING, YOU KNOW, THAN HAVING SOMEONE COME IN AND PUT THEIR DRYWALL. LIKE IF SOMEONE CHOOSES NOT TO PUT WINDOWS BECAUSE WE DO IT THIS WAY VERSUS LIKE, OKAY, FINE, GO TO HOME AND DON'T GET YOUR DRYWALL. THE NUMBERS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ARE THEY ON PAGE 35 OF THE ADDITIONAL BOX? IF YOU ARE LOOKING, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT PAGE SEVEN OF THE ORIGINAL 2021 CAPITAL
[01:05:07]
IMPROVEMENT PLAN IMPACT FEE STUDY TO FIND. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO FIND IS THE NUMBER OF YOU WERE WELL, I ALSO WONDER IF THERE'S A COMPROMISE BY JUST SAYING ANYTHING UNDER 1000FT■S.WE DON'T DO BASEMENTS ANYTHING ABOVE THE TWO BECAUSE IT'S ASSUMED THAT THAT'S WHAT THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I WAS HEADED WITH THAT. ANYTHING ABOVE 1000FT, YOU DO. DO YOU PAY FOR THE BASEMENT? NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE DOING OR. I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT. YEAH, THAT WAS MY THOUGHT. OR YOU SAY IF THERE'S A BATHROOM, THEN YOU DO IT IF THERE'S AN EGRESS, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. YOU'D HAVE 1000 OR UP TO. I HAVE TO THINK THROUGH THAT. YEAH, BUT WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS SOME OF THESE ADUS WERE UP TO 800, REMEMBER? BUT TRYING TO FIND A PLACE TO PUT A STAIRCASE IN THAT WAS REALLY DIFFICULT, RIGHT? YOU'RE LIKELY KNOCKING OUT BASEMENTS IN 1000 OR SMALLER. THAT'S THAT'S KIND OF THAT SUCH A FALSE IT'S SUCH A SMALL FOOTPRINT. THE OTHER THING YOU SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT, TOO, IS THAT BY MEASURING RESIDENTIAL SPACE BY SQUARE FOOTAGE, YOU. THIS WILL APPLY. WHETHER YOU'RE BUILDING AN APARTMENT BUILDING, YOU'RE MORE IT'LL BE ALL KINDS OF THINGS. SO RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THAT OUR IMPACT FEE IS DESIGNED IS THAT IF YOU ARE BUILDING A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, WHICH WE DEFINE A VARIETY OF WAYS THAT YOU'RE GETTING CHARGED A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING FEE, AND THEN IF YOU'RE BUILDING A MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING, THEN YOU'RE GETTING CHARGED A DIFFERENT FEE. THIS WOULD DO AWAY WITH THAT DISTINCTION AND WOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE UNIT. SO YOU MIGHT HAVE A SERIES OF SMALL APARTMENTS THAT ARE ALL 1000FT■!S. THOSE PROBABLY WON'T HAVE BASEMENTS BECAUSE MOST OF THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS IN OUR COMMUNITY DON'T HAVE BASEMENTS. ALTHOUGH I SUPPOSE THEY COULD.
YEAH, RIGHT. AND MOST, MOST APARTMENT BUILDERS ARE GOING TO WANT TO MAXIMIZE THEIR USABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO I IMAGINE THEY'LL PROBABLY FINISH THEM. IF THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD BASEMENT UNITS, THEY'LL FINISH THOSE BASEMENT UNITS. SO TO COUNCIL PRESIDENTS POINT HERE, YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE BASEMENTS. I THINK THERE IS A SOCIO ECONOMIC LINE. IF YOU'RE BUILDING A 6000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, I DON'T THINK YOU CARE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE BREAK. ON YOUR IMPACT FEE FOR YOUR FINISHED OR UNFINISHED BASEMENT. YOU'RE JUST GOING TO YOU'RE JUST GOING TO BUILD THE UNFINISHED BASEMENT.
SO WE ARE TALKING PROBABLY ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL STARTER HOME AND WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S GOING TO COME WITH THE BASEMENT THAT'S FINISHED OR UNFINISHED AND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO CAPTURE THOSE IMPACTS. AND THAT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTION. FRANKLY. I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE FRICTION HAS BEEN ALL ALONG WITH OUR IMPACT FEES ON THAT END OF THE SPECTRUM OF HOUSING. PAGE 14. DOESN'T IT INDICATE THAT IF YOU'RE UNDER A THOUSAND, 50 IS ALREADY QUITE A BIT LESS THAN WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PAYING? HOW WOULD THAT SOUND? YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. SO THE. THAT SOUNDS PAINFUL TO TRY TO FIX PAYING FOR WHAT WOULD BE THE 1000 TO 2000. BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS AND MAYBE I JUST HAVE A DEVIOUS BRAIN, BUT IF WE SAY WE'RE EXEMPTING UNDER X, WE'RE SUDDENLY GOING TO START SEEING X MINUS ONE SIZED. MAIN FLOOR AND ALL THE PLACE. I MEAN, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEW NORM. AND I THOSE ARE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO. AND SO WE JUST NEED TO BE KIND OF SMART. ANOTHER THING TO WORRY ABOUT IS THE MORE COMPLEX WE MAKE IT, THE MORE EXCEPTIONS HERE AND THERE, THE CRAZIER IT GETS TO TRY TO CALCULATE. AND SO I THINK SIMPLER WE CAN MAKE IT TO CALCULATE. THERE'S SOME ELEGANCE HERE. I MEAN THIS IS ONE CLEAN CHART. IT'S JUST STRAIGHTFORWARD. THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR JUST MAKING A PLAN AND STICKING WITH IT AND NOT PUTTING A LOT OF BELLS AND WHISTLES AND EXCEPTIONS ON THERE. I'M JUST MAKING PIE IN THE SKY COMMENTS HERE. BUT YEAH, BUT I ALSO SEE THAT THERE ARE TIERED PRICES WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT, RIGHT, THAT YOU CAN GO $2 FOR ABOVE GROUND FINISHED AND $1 FOR BELOW GROUND BASEMENT FINISHED. AND YOU CAN THEN SAY BASICALLY I'M FINISHED ZERO. YOU CAN DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS. IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT SOUNDS GOOD. AND IN WHAT CONTEXT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ABOUT CHARGING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FEE SOUNDED LIKE THAT. THAT'S AN OPTION. IT'S AN OPTION IF YOU CAN ESTABLISH YOUR BASIS FOR MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION. SO YOU'LL NEED THE DATA ON THAT. IF BASEMENTS ARE CAUSE HALF OF THE IMPACTS THAT ABOVE GRADE CONSTRUCTION DOES, THEN THIS COUNCIL CAN SAY, OH YEAH, WE'RE
[01:10:01]
GOING TO DISCOUNT THOSE BY HALF. BUT YOU'LL NEED TO ESTABLISH WHY IT IS YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION. IT NEEDS TO BE MORE THAN JUST A GUT FEELING. OR COULD YOU DO IT BY BASEMENT? I MEAN EVERYTHING ABOVE FINISHED. RATE GRADE AND THEN BELOW EVERYTHING. THAT'S A BEDROOM.AND YOU CAN SAY, HEY, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY TIED TO AN IMPACT. YOU COULD DO THAT. IT WOULD BE A KIND OF UNPRECEDENTED WAY OF EVALUATING AN IMPACT FEE. I TYPICALLY IN VIRTUALLY EVERY JURISDICTION IS DOING IT BY SQUARE FOOTAGE. THEY'RE NOT BRINGING IT UP BY BEDROOM. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'D HAVE TO DEFINE WHAT A BEDROOM IS. NOT A BEDROOM. IT'S A DEN. YEAH.
THERE'S A PROBLEM. EXACTLY. I REMEMBER WHEN THEY USED TO BUILD BASEMENT HOUSES HERE. YEAH, WE STILL HAVE A BUNCH OF THEM AROUND. WAS THERE A REASON FOR THAT? I MEAN, WAS IT JUST CHEAPER OR BETTER HEATING AND THE HISTORY OF THAT INDUSTRY? YEAH. CAN I ASK COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS A QUESTION THEN? SO AS I LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUR CURRENT FEE, WHICH IS 75% OF PARKS POLICE, FIRE, THERE IS THE SAVINGS THAT WE CAN SEE ON PAGE 14. IT IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THAT'S WHAT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLANS WERE BASED ON, BECAUSE THAT WAS OUR CURRENT COLLECTIVE FEE. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE SAYING, YOU KNOW, SAYING NO, WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT AT THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT, WHICH IS THE 75%. WELL, IT REALLY DOES TURN OUT TO BE 75%. IT LIKE MAINTAINS THAT THROUGHOUT THIS STUDY BUT THEN COLLECT ON EVERYTHING. BUT MAYBE THE GARAGE AND THE MECHANICAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I'M AT A POINT I DON'T HAVE A FINAL DECISION, EXCEPT I THINK WHATEVER IS ABOVE GRADE, YOU PAY THE FULL FEE WHETHER YOU FINISHED IT OR YOU DIDN'T. THE ONLY CATCH I'M LEFT WITH, EXCEPT FOR GARAGES, WHICH I SAID, YEAH, BECAUSE I'M, I'M, I'M LEANING MORE TOWARDS THE FULL SQUARE FOOTAGE BECAUSE I JUST THINK IT BECOMES SO COMPLICATED. BUT LEAVING IT AT 75% BECAUSE THEN IT'S LIKE, NO, THIS WAS THE IMPACT. YOU WANT TO BUILD A SMALLER, YOU KNOW, A 999 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE WITH A 999 SQUARE FOOT BASEMENT? WELL, NOW YOU'RE AT THE 1998 LEVEL, AND YOU'RE GOING TO PAY $795 MORE THAN YOU'RE CURRENTLY PAYING. IT DOESN'T SOUND THAT DOESN'T SOUND UNREASONABLE, BUT IF YOU JUMP IT UP AND SAY, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO YOUR UPSTAIRS, YOUR DOWNSTAIRS, AND WE'RE GOING TO GO TO 100%. NOW THAT YOU KNOW, THAT IMPACT IS MUCH GREATER. SO A QUESTION ON THAT. SO THE TABLE THAT YOU'RE WORKING FROM THAT DOESN'T EXIST MAYBE YET IS 100% BASED ON THE ACTUAL COST. GOING BACK TO WHAT THE ATTORNEY SAID ABOUT ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE TO SUPPORT IS THIS IS WHAT IT ACTUALLY COSTS. SO IS THAT 100% OR IS THAT THE 75%? OUR TABLE IN NUMBER ON PAGE 14, IN OUR CURRENT STUDY REPRESENTS 75%. SO WHY DO WE CALL IT 75%? BECAUSE IF THAT'S WHAT THE DATA SUPPORTS, THAT'S AS MUCH AS WE CAN THEORETICALLY CHARGE. SO YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S THAT WAS KIND OF BEEN COUNCIL MEMBER FRANCIS'S POINT IS WHY WHY ARE WE USING OUR CURRENT FEE RATHER THAN THE CURRENT MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE? I WHICH IS WHICH IS WHY WE'RE. YEAH, TO HIS POINT, WE'RE KIND OF MISSING SOME, BUT BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE BASE BECAUSE GOING BACK AGAIN TO WHAT MIKE SAID IS THE DATA HAS TO SUPPORT THE NUMBER. SO ARE WE GOING TO TAKE THAT NUMBER AND THEN DISCOUNT IT BY 25%, OR ARE WE JUST GOING TO TAKE THAT NUMBER? YEAH. IF I CAN ADD JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS REALLY QUICKLY. AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS COUNCIL, YOU CAN MAKE THE DESIGNATION OF THE 75, THE STUDY AND THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY REQUIRES US TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE RATE IS. THAT'S REQUIRED. BUT COUNCIL CAN COME BACK AT AND MAKE THE DECISION TO SAY, WE'RE ONLY GOING TO CHARGE 75% OF THAT MAXIMUM. SO WHAT'S THE LOGIC TO THAT ACROSS THE BOARD OF HAVING THE DATA THAT SAYS IT SHOULD BE ONE NUMBER AND WE'RE GOING TO USE A DIFFERENT NUMBER. AND WHEN DO WE CHANGE THAT. BACK TO THE FULL NUMBER. I THINK WE'RE TRAPPING OURSELVES. I THINK WE'RE ALREADY IN THAT TRAP RIGHT NOW. AND I DON'T SEE THE POINT IN GETTING BACK INTO IT AGAIN. AND THE OTHER FACTOR THAT THE CONSULTANT USES IS WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF SERVICE, WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF SERVICE TODAY? AND AS MICHAEL HAD MENTIONED EARLIER, OVER TIME, WHAT'S THE IMPACT TO THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO PUT EVERYTHING IN THE TABLES AND TALK ABOUT WHAT THE
[01:15:03]
CURRENT LEVEL OF SERVICES AND HOW WE CAN GROW OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS AND WHAT THAT IMPACT OF THE GROWTH WILL BE ON OUR FOR IMPACT FEE AREAS. EVAN, CAN I ASK? OH, GO AHEAD AND HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. SURE. COUNCIL MAY ELECT TO DO 25% OF THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE, SAYING THAT IT'S THE COUNCIL'S INTENT TO IDENTIFY OTHER PLACES TO MAKE UP THAT SHORTFALL. THAT IMPACT FEE STATUTE DOES SAY THAT COUNCIL NEEDS TO CONSIDER ALTERNATIVE WAYS TO FUND IMPACTS ON THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. SO WHEN COUNCIL MADE THE DECISION TO CHARGE 75% OF THE PARKS IMPACT FEE, THE FIRE AND POLICE IMPACT FEES, I MEAN, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE COUNCIL WAS SAYING, IS THAT WE WOULD FIND OTHER WAYS TO OFFSET THESE IMPACTS. IF YOU DON'T, THEN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT YOU HAVE GRADUALLY DECREASES BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO MAINTAIN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE AT THE LEVEL IT IS WITHOUT GROWTH CHIPPING AWAY AT IT. ESSENTIALLY, THAT'S THAT'S THE BARGAIN YOU'RE MAKING. IF YOU DISCOUNT THE IMPACT FEE, IS THAT YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO FIND OTHER WAYS TO ADDRESS SHORTFALLS, AND THAT MIGHT BE WITH THE GENERAL PROPERTY TAX LEVY. THAT MIGHT BE THROUGH. GETTING RID OF OTHER SERVICES AND DIVERTING IT TOWARDS WHERE YOU'RE HAVING THE IMPACTS. OR IT MAY JUST BE SAYING WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THERE BEING FEWER ROADS THAT ARE CAN BE ABLE TO BE MAINTAINED THE LEVEL THAT WE'VE GOT, OR YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE NUMBER OF FIRE STATIONS AND THE NUMBER OF FIRE ENGINES THAT YOU'VE GOT, OR YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE POLICE BUILDING. BEING THE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED FOR THE NEXT 20 OR 30 YEARS. I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING. CAN I ASK ONE MORE? SURE. SO HYPOTHETICAL. WE DECIDED WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE SMALLER HOUSING TO MAKE ENTRY LEVEL HOUSING LESS EXPENSIVE. SO WE MAKE A POLICY DECISION THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT AT 75%, UP TO SOME SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND AFTER THAT, WE'RE GOING TO DO 100%. AND THEN WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY HOW WE'RE GOING TO MAKE UP THAT DEFICIENCY TO MAINTAIN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE.IF WE CHOSE TO DO THAT, IS THAT A DEFENDABLE SITUATION? IS THAT A IS THAT ONE THAT A I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD MIGHT GET CHALLENGED ON. YEAH. BUT I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS GIVEN THE COUNCIL A LOT OF LEEWAY IN, IN COMING UP WITH WHAT THE IMPACT FEE IS, PROVIDED THAT YOU FOLLOW THE PROCESS, WHICH IS ESTABLISHING A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN. IF YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, FOR LET'S JUST SAY IF YOU SAY ANYTHING THAT'S LARGER THAN 6000FT■S, YOU'RE JUST GOING TO PAY 100% OF THE TOTAL MAXIMUM SUPPORT FEE. YOU COULD DO THAT, BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY GET IS PEOPLE WHO WILL SAY THAT'S THAT'S AN EQUAL PROTECTION VIOLATION. HOW THAT WOULD SORT OUT, I DON'T KNOW, I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. HERE'S ONE OTHER THING TO LOOK AT. JUST TO CONSIDER, AS YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS ON THE TABLE ON PAGE 14, YOU'RE NOT DOUBLING. YOU'RE DOUBLING YOUR YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE POTENTIALLY. RIGHT, 1000 UP TO ALMOST 2000. YOU'RE ONE ONE SQUARE FOOT LESS, BUT YOU'RE NOT DOUBLING YOUR IMPACT FEE ON YOUR MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO 4280. YOU'RE STILL YOU'RE GAINING SOME LEVEL OF EFFICIENCY THAT I THINK THEY'RE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THAT YOU'RE NOT DOUBLING THE SIZE OF YOUR FAMILY OR YOUR OCCUPANCY.
RIGHT. OTHERWISE YOU WOULD SAY AT 1000FT, IT'S 2144. AT 2000FT, YOUR 4188 AND YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT. SO THEY'RE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT THAT THE LARGER HOUSE ISN'T SIX TIMES MORE. THE IMPACT. IN THIS CASE, THEY'RE SAYING IT'S FOUR TIMES MORE THE IMPACT. AND AGAIN, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T REALLY SEE HUGE SHIFTS IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN A STRUCTURE JUST BECAUSE IT'S 2 OR 3 TIMES BIGGER THAN ANOTHER STRUCTURE THAT'S YOU DO AT THE LOWER END.
YES. SMALLER HOMES, HOMES, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, HAVE FEWER PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THEM. SO A 1000 FOOT DWELLING, THE NUMBER IS 1.7, 1.8, 1.8. IS IT. YEAH. IT WAS LESS. IT'S LESS. IT'S LESS THAN TWO. SO AND YOU SEE A BIG JUMP AS YOU GO FROM THE THRESHOLD OF 1000 TO 2000. BUT
[01:20:06]
AFTER 2000 IT REALLY LEVELS OFF. YEAH. AND YOU DON'T SEE BIG JUMPS NOW IN A 3000 SQUARE FOOT HOME. YOU DO SEE MORE FOLKS THAT ARE TYPICALLY LIVING IN THAT STRUCTURE. BUT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT A FLOOR. IT'S LIKE TWO. IT'S LIKE 2.8. IT'S MORE THAN WHAT WOULD BE IN A SMALLER HOME, BUT NOT THAT MUCH MORE. AND THAT'S TRUE AS FAR OVER AS YOU SLIDE OVER. SO YOU CAN HAVE A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME. IT'S ENORMOUS. IT'D BE GREAT. BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO FIND ABOUT 2 OR 3 PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. AND THAT'S IT. BACK TO THE IMPACT FOR YOU. DO YOU THINK THERE'S AN INCREASED LIABILITY BY INCLUDING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IN THE BASEMENT? IF WE DON'T HAVE SOMETHING THAT SAYS THAT IT INCREASED? I THINK THAT IT'S NOT AN INCREASE YOUR LIABILITY. IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT LESS DEFENSIBLE. I THINK THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS MAYBE GETTING OUT OF MY BOX OF WHAT YOUR ATTORNEY IS, BUT NOT REALLY, BECAUSE THE LAW REQUIRES YOU TO JUSTIFY YOUR ASSUMPTIONS BASED OFF OF FACTS, IS THAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT YOUR FACTS. YOUR FACTS SAY THAT BASEMENTS HAVE NO IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE WITHIN A STRUCTURE. WELL, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T CHARGE AN IMPACT FEE FOR A BASEMENT. I DON'T THAT ISN'T THE DATA THAT YOU'VE GOT.CAN WE ASK THAT QUESTION OF COLUMN? AND ESPECIALLY IF IT IF IT HITS A NUMBER LIKE 1000.
SURE. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE OUTCOME IF WE FOUND THAT THAT WAS TRUE. BECAUSE I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE PRETTY WILLING TO DO IT IF IT DOES INCREASE IMPACT. RIGHT. LIKE FOR ME, I'M NOT ARGUING AGAINST BASEMENTS BEING INCLUDED. IF IT ACTUALLY DOES BRING TWO MORE PEOPLE THAT SURE, I COULD. I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT THE IMPACT ADVISORY COMMITTEE CAME UP WITH, BUT MY THOUGHT PROCESS DOES JUST NOT FOLLOW THEIRS. I JUST THINK THAT UNDER A THOUSAND THAT THE MAXIMUM SUPPORT SUPPORTABLE FEE OF 2144 TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION A REALLY SMALL HOME, AND THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO TACK A BASEMENT ONTO IT, THE DIFFERENCE OF $795 EXTRA, THAT'S A THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER HOUSE, THAT'S DOUBLE THE SIZE OF A HOUSE. AND I THINK YOU WILL YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY ADD IMPACT. SO YOU'RE SAYING SO I MEAN, IF I'M PICKING UP WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SO YOU'RE SAYING IF THEY'RE BUILDING 1000 FOOT, 1000 SQUARE FOOT HOME TO TRY TO CONTROL COSTS AND HAVE ENTRY HOMES AVAILABLE? YES, IF THEY HAVE AN UNFINISHED BASEMENT UNDER IT NOW IT'S A 2000FT■S. NW IT'S A 2000 SQUARE FOOT HOME.
AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S 700 MORE DOLLARS? THAT'S 795 MORE DOLLARS THAN OUR OUR CURRENT FEE. AND IT'S. YES, IT'S IT IS, IT IS $795 MORE, BUT IT'S $1,400 MORE THAN THE THAN UNDER A THOUSAND. SO, SO IF YOU BUILD. OH GO AHEAD. SO MY THOUGHT IS IF I'M BUILDING ENTRY LEVEL HOMES I'M JUST GOING TO BUILD A BASE. I JUST WOULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THEN YOU'LL SELL THE HOUSE FOR LESS MONEY. YEAH. I MEAN YEAH. SO YEAH. AND THAT'S WHY I ALSO MAKE THE DECISION. RIGHT. AND I ALSO THINK THAT TO SAY LIKE, OH, WE'RE, WE'RE ACTUALLY CONTROLLING THE HOUSING BY THIS PRICE, I FEEL LIKE. NO. BECAUSE EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEN IT'S LIKE, WELL THEY'VE GOT THEIR UPGRADE RIGHT. THEIR GRANITE. AND I MEAN WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT CONTROLLING. WE'RE NOT BUILDING. WE'RE NOT WE'RE YEAH. THIS IS NOT THIS IS NOT WHAT. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE'RE NOT CONTROLLING THE HOUSING AVAILABILITY OR THE MARKET BY OUR IMPACT FEES. I MEAN, AMMON, WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL OF THOSE NUMBERS. AND IN ORDER TO HOOK ON TO THEIR SEWER, IT'S $9,000, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE WE'RE WELL BELOW THAT. SO I'M, I MEAN, PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S MORE DEFENDABLE TO LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND SAY MINUS THE GARAGE, I WOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT THE IMPACT FEE STUDY SAID. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO. IT'S NOT DISRESPECTFUL OF THE IMPACT THAT THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. I JUST THINK THAT I LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY. IT'S NOT ABOUT GETTING MORE MONEY. IT'S JUST ABOUT THIS IS WHAT THE IMPACT. YEAH, THIS IS WHAT THE IMPACT SAYS IT IS. YEAH. AND NOT TRYING TO GUESS MYSELF. IT'S A CONSISTENT STATEMENT THAT THIS IS IT. YEAH. THAT IT'S ALL DATA BASED. IT'S ALL DATA BASED. AND IT DOESN'T DOUBLE EVERY TIME YOU DOUBLE YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE. IT TAKES THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. IT'S LESS IF YOU BUILD UNDER A THOUSAND JOHN. SO IT'S REALLY ADDRESSING SOME REALLY IF SOMEBODY REALLY WANTS TO BUILD THERE YOU KNOW, THINK, OH THIS IS A HOUSING CRISIS AND THEY WANT TO BE UNDER 1000FT■S TO HEP
[01:25:01]
MANAGE THAT. THEY'RE GETTING AN $800 BREAK FROM WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY CHARGING. I THINK THAT THE DIRECTORS DID THEIR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLANS, WHICH WAS ALWAYS WHY I WAS AT 75%, BECAUSE I FELT LIKE THAT HAD TO BE THE STICK IN THE CARROT TO GET THEM THERE. SO THAT THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. SO OVER TIME, YOU KNOW, WE SET IT UP LIKE THIS AND WE SAY THIS IS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT. OVER TIME WE FIND IT DOESN'T QUITE COVER THE EXPENSES OF GROWTH. THEN WE CAN GO BACK AND CHANGE HOW MUCH WE'RE GOING TO REVISIT. WE HAVE TO DO THE STUDY OVER AGAIN EVERY FIVE YEARS. I UNDERSTAND, BUT WE COULD DO THAT. THERE IS A WAY TO FIX, IF WE ESTIMATE WRONG, WHAT THE COST IS FOR A LEVEL OF SERVICE. YEAH, WE DO GET TO OCCASIONALLY. LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE TO PAY FOR A NEW EVERY EVERY FIVE YEARS. THE LEGISLATURE REQUIRES THE CITY TO UPDATE ITS PLANS. SO EVERY FIVE YEARS. AND WE'RE A LITTLE EARLY ON THE FIVE YEARS, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE KIND OF BREAKING THIS ONE IN. WE'RE NOT THAT EARLY. AND SO YOU WILL GET A CHANCE TO, TO LOOK BACK AND SEE HOW IT'S HOW IT'S WORKING, WHETHER IT'S ACCURATELY CAPTURING COSTS THAT'S BUILT IN TO THE LEGISLATION. OKAY, WAIT, I DO I DO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ONE THING I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT WHETHER THERE IS A TIE TO BASEMENTS HAVING MORE IMPACT, BECAUSE IF IT DOESN'T, THEN THAT'S THE OTHER ROUTE THEY'LL TAKE. IT'S THE SAME ROUTE. WELL, THEY'LL NEED TO IF THEY FEEL THAT THEY'RE THAT THEY'RE THERE, THAT BASEMENTS DON'T CREATE AN IMPACT AND THAT NOBODY SHOULD EVER BE CHARGING FOR IMPACT FEE FOR BASEMENT EVER. THEN THEY'LL NEED TO SHOW THAT NOBODY EVER LIVES IN THE BASEMENT. YEAH, THAT'S WHY YOU FINISH YOUR BASEMENT SO YOUR KIDS CAN MOVE BACK IN THE HOUSE. SO, I MEAN, I MEAN, THE STRUGGLE IS BECAUSE OF WHAT LISA SAID, BUT SOME BASEMENTS ARE JUST YOUR CANNING STORAGE. OH, CERTAINLY. CERTAINLY PEOPLE USE THEIR HOMES IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS. AND THE IMPACT FEE, THOUGH, GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIND A PARTICULARIZED IMPACT FEE FOR YOUR STRUCTURE THAT IS A DIFFERENT AND APART FROM THE GENERALIZED FEE STRUCTURE, THE GENERALIZED FEE STRUCTURE TAKES INTO SOME GENERALIZED ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE TRUE IN MOST CASES. SO IF YOU BUILD A HOME THAT YOU THINK IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENS IN MOST CASES, YOU CAN HAVE AN INDIVIDUALIZED FEE DONE FOR YOUR HOME AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE IMPACT FEE WILL BE FOR YOUR HOME SPECIFICALLY. AND SO IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE BUILDING A BASEMENT THAT IS FOUR FEET HIGH AND IT'S ONLY EVER GOING TO BE USED TO STORE WINE, THEN, THEN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU COULD GET AN INDIVIDUALIZED ASSESSMENT FOR THAT THE CITY WOULD, WOULD LOOK AT WITH YOU AND SAY, YOU'RE RIGHT, NO ONE'S EVER GOING TO LIVE DOWN THERE BECAUSE THE CEILINGS ARE FAR TOO LOW. I'M NOT SURE HOW. AND AGAIN, THE OTHER THING THAT THIS THAT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IMPACT FEE IS FOR ONLY NEW STRUCTURES. IT'S NOT FOR OLD CONSTRUCTION. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPING A FEE FOR THE HOME THAT PEOPLE ALREADY LIVE IN. YEAH, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT HOMES THAT WILL BE CONSTRUCTED IN THE FUTURE THAT ARE ADDING GROWTH TO OUR TOWN. WAIT. UNLESS THEY COME AND PULL A PERMIT AND DO THEIR BASEMENT. UNLESS THEY PULL THEIR PERMIT AND DO THEIR BASEMENT. LISA DID.IN YOUR LAST STATEMENT, DID YOU SUGGEST GOING TO THE 100% IN THE NEW STUDY? WELL, IT'S REALLY THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE. YEAH. BASED ON THIS, IT'S THE MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE FOR A HOUSE UNDER 1000FT■S. WE GET $2,144, WHICH IS $800 LESS THAN WE'VE EVER BEEN ABLE TO OFFER IN ANY OTHER SCENARIO, EVEN WITH OUR CURRENT FEE, IT'S STILL $800 LESS THAN THAT. SO IT'S 1835 CHEAPER THAN OUR MAXIMUM SUPPORTABLE FEE BEFORE. SO I MEAN, JUST WHEN I LOOK AT IT, ALL OF THE PIECES KIND OF DOVETAIL NICELY TOGETHER IN THIS WORK THAT LARGELY BECAUSE OF GOING TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THEN THE NEXT LEVEL, AS YOU IDENTIFIED AT THE 795, BEAR IN MIND THAT THAT $795, THAT IT WOULD COST YOU MORE THAN CURRENT FEES, THOSE CURRENT FEES WERE SET X YEARS AGO. IF WE WERE REPLICATING CURRENT FEES FOR THIS. BUT USING TODAY'S DOLLAR VALUATION TODAY, YEAH, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE THAT A BIT MORE. AND SO I'M THINKING 785 IS STILL A REALLY GOOD SWEET SPOT FOR THAT PARTICULAR LEVEL. BUT THEN THE NEXT LEVEL THE IMPACT IS ONLY $7. RIGHT. AND SO WE REALLY DON'T SEE A BIG IMPACT UNTIL THE LARGE MOVING TO THE ABOVE
[01:30:06]
3000FT■!S. SO LISA'S RIGHT. I THINK THAT THERE IS A GOOD CALIBRATION. THERE'S A GOOD THAT'S THE RIGHT WORD. THERE'S A GOOD CALIBRATION. IT'S IT TAKES US TO THE MAXIMUM LEVEL SUPPORTABLE FEE. SO BASED ON WHAT OUR ATTORNEY SAID, IF WE CHOOSE TO LOWER ANY OF THOSE, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO FUND IT FROM, BECAUSE OUR OWN REPORT SAYS TO MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF SERVICE, THIS IS THE DOLLARS WE NEED, RIGHT? SO IF WE DECIDE TO SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO LOWER THAT BY SOME NUMBER, SOME PERCENTAGE, DO WE ARE WE OBLIGATED TO THEN YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO FIND NEW MONEY. BUT YOUR CHOICE IS REALLY ONE OF TWO THINGS. ONE, THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO COLLECT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN YOUR LEVEL OF SERVICE. SO YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE LEVEL OF SERVICE DECREASING OVER TIME. OR YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW OUR LEVEL OF SERVICE TO DECREASE, BUT WE'LL NEED TO FIND THE MONEY SOMEWHERE ELSE. NOW, YOU DON'T NEED TO ARTICULATE AT THE TIME THAT YOU REDUCE THAT BY 25% ON WHICH CHOICE YOU'RE MAKING OR WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO GO FIND THE MONEY, BUT THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE CHOICE THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD BE MAKING. THANK YOU MAYOR. IT'S IMPLICIT. THANK YOU. YEAH. I THINK INSTEAD OF GETTING 53 ACRES, WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO GET 25% LESS. AND THAT WAS SO WE EITHER AT LEAST IN OUR MINDS, WE HAVE TO SAY OKAY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THAT UP? WE'RE GOING TO LIVE WITH THE DECLINING. AND THAT'S HENCE MY STATEMENT. YOU'RE PASSING THE COST ON TO ALL THE TAXPAYERS. THAT'S ONLY ASSUMING WE WANTED TO KEEP THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT AT THE END PEOPLE DO WELL. WE ORIGINALLY DID THE 75,000 BECAUSE WE WERE GOING FROM 0 OR 75% BECAUSE WE WERE GOING FROM ZERO. WE CALLED IT A TRANSITION PERIOD. TRANSITION PERIOD IS OVER. YEAH. BUT FOR ME IT WAS ABOUT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN TRANSITION. IT WAS BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK THE CITY HAD DONE THEIR JOB TO GET THE BUT YOU KNOW BUT WE'RE WE'RE THERE NOW WAS THE TRANSITION. WE GOT 75. WE'VE GOT THE HONEYMOON IS OVER.THE HONEYMOON IS OVER. CAN'T POINT TO WHAT THIS IS PAYING FOR. YEAH, YEAH. NOW THEY CAN SAY YEP, WE'RE GETTING 53 ACRES AND WE'RE GETTING A POLICE STATION ON HERE. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A NEW FIRE STATION. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT, A FIRE STATION, OKAY. AND I JUST THINK DEFENDING IT TO WHOEVER WOULD COME TO OUR DOOR AND ARGUE WITH IT IF WE HIRED THE PEOPLE TO DO THE STUDY AND THEY GAVE US THE STUDY. WE LIVE BY THE STUDY. IT'S PRETTY HARD. I MEAN, THEY CAN ARGUE, BUT AT LEAST WE'VE GOT A FOUNDATION FOR WHY WE DID WHAT WE DID. WELL, LEGALLY, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE FOUNDATION, RIGHT? WE HAVE TO HAVE. BUT WE DIDN'T ALTER. WE DIDN'T IGNORE THE RESULTS OF CAN'T JUST MAKE STUFF UP. YEAH. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT, LIKE THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, WE LISTEN, BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN WE DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE NOT DICTATING TO US. WE HAVE SOME OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE. ARE YOU PERSUADED BY THE FINAL STATEMENT ABOUT GARAGES AND PERHAPS ALTERING THAT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, ANCILLARY BUILDINGS OR OUTBUILDINGS? THE ONLY THING I'D CHANGE ON THIS IS TAKE OUT AUTOMOBILE? HONESTLY, JUST HAVING JUST SAY GARAGE SPACE SHALL NOT BE AN AUTOMOBILE GARAGE SPACE, I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, I'D AGREE BECAUSE I DON'T PUT AUTOMOBILE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PEOPLE DON'T PUT A CAR IN THEIR GARAGE. YEAH, BUT YOU'RE NOT BUILDING YOUR GARAGE WITH A LIVING SPACE OVER THE TOP OF IT, RIGHT? WELL, YOU'D STILL COUNT THE LIVING SPACE ABOVE IT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE, YES, PART OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT NOT THE NOT THE GARAGE UNDERNEATH.
YEAH. IS THERE THERE WAS NO WAY FOR THEM TO GIVE US SOME SENSE OF BASEMENT VERSUS BASEMENT.
WELL, WE CAN ASK. WE'LL ASK. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE DATA THAT WAS THAT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN IS RELYING ON DID NOT INCLUDE THAT THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN BASEMENT SPACE SQUARE FOOTAGE VERSUS ABOVE GRADE SQUARE FOOTAGE, THAT IT JUST TAKES INTO ACCOUNT SQUARE FOOTAGE AS A WHOLE. IT DOESN'T SPECIFY WHETHER THAT'S ABOVE OR BELOW GRADE. SO IN THEIR MIND, THEY'RE PROBABLY BECAUSE 1000 SQUARE FOOT HOME WITH A BASEMENT OF 500 FOOT LEVEL WOULDN'T HAPPEN, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK THAT THE DATA IS THAT GRANULAR. I THINK WHAT WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IS 1000 SQUARE FOOT HOME, AND WHETHER THAT MEANS THERE'S 500FT ABOVE GRADE OR OR MAYBE IT MEANS THERE'S 300FT BELOW GRADE AND 600FT ABOVE GRADE. IT'S HARD TO KNOW.
AND I JUST THINK AGAIN THAT THAT DATA SET I MEAN, I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO FIND BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU THINK OF CENSUS DATA, IT'S USUALLY BEDROOMS, NOT SORT OF ABOVE GROUND FOOTAGE AND BELOW. SO IT'S JUST THEY DO THIS IN
[01:35:03]
DIFFERENT DEVICE THROUGHOUT ALL OVER. SO I WOULD THINK THEY WOULD KNOW. I THINK WE CAN DEFINITELY ASK. I JUST I THINK THAT THAT THAT DATA SET I MEAN HE'S COLIN SORT OF ASKED LOTS OF DIFFERENT DATA POINTS AND I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW WHETHER THAT'S A DATA POINT OR NOT. YOU CAN CERTAINLY ASK. MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT WAS, I WANT SOMETHING THAT'S CONSISTENT, THAT DOESN'T INVITE PEOPLE TO BREAK THE LAW. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID. IT'S SQUARE FOOTAGE, PERIOD. SO WE'RE GOING TO DO SQUARE FOOTAGE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A DEFINITION COME BACK TO YOU THAT. I MEAN, IMMEDIATELY, WHAT I WOULD THINK IS, IS I'D STRIKE OUT MAYBE THE THREE THINGS THAT MAKE UP FINISHED SPACE AND JUST SAY, SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE SHALL BE DETERMINED BY THE LIVING SPACE WITHIN THE STRUCTURE. I THINK IF YOU EVEN GO BACK TO THE FIRST OR THE SECOND SLIDE WHERE WE'VE GOT THOSE DEFINITIONS FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES, THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING. YEAH, I MEAN, MOST, MOST DEFINITIONS DEFINE IT BY HEATED SPACE, HEATED OR COOLED SPACE. I COULD BRING YOU BACK A DEFINITION THAT IS SIMILAR TO THAT, THAT IT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE INCLUDES THE CLIMATE CONTROL AREAS OF THE HOME, EXCLUDING THE GARAGE. BOZEMAN. ISN'T THAT ISN'T IT ANY LIVING SPACE? SO BOZEMAN IN THE LIVING SPACE, THEY JUST CALL IT THE LIVING SPACE. AND THIS ISN'T THE EXACT WORDING THAT THEY USED, MORE OR LESS MY NOTES, BUT IT'S LIVING SPACE FOR POTENTIAL LIVING SPACE. THAT WAS THE DEFINITION I WROTE DOWN THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER. YEAH. I MEAN, BUT THEN YOU GOT THE MECHANICAL, RIGHT. SOMEONE'S GOING TO SAY, WELL, MY MECHANICAL ISN'T LIVING SPACE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THE HVAC CONTROL AREAS OF THE HOME EASY IS YOU COULD SAY, WELL, YOU'VE GOT A VENT, RIGHT? THERE AS PART OF THEIR SQUARE FOOTAGE. OKAY, OKAY. SO SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO DO A FOLLOW UP ON JOHN'S QUESTION. BUT THE ANSWER TO THAT NOTWITHSTANDING, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH DEVELOPING A DEFINITION OF LIVING SPACE THAT'S BROADER THAN WHAT THE COMMITTEE HAD RECOMMENDED. WE ARE INTERESTED IN CERTAINLY ADOPTING THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION TO EXCLUDE GARAGES AND OR PERHAPS STORAGE SPACE OR WHATEVER. WE HOWEVER, THAT'S ANOTHER DEFINITION. I THINK THAT MIKE MAY WANT TO TAKE A STAB AT FOR US TO IDENTIFY, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD. ANY ADU ACCESSORY DWELLING ACCESSORY. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE USE THE RIGHT WORDS SO THAT WE DON'T GET CROSSWISE WITH OURSELVES. AND WITH THAT, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD.AND I GUESS THE MESSAGING TO THE COMMITTEE, IF THEY'RE WATCHING OR LISTEN LATER OR IF YOU COMMUNICATE WITH THEM, IT IS THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESEARCH AND FOR YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY WERE LISTENED TO. YEAH. CONSIDERED AND APPLIED WHERE WE COULD, BUT THE COUNCIL HAD OTHER VALUES THAT THEY WERE PLACING IN THEIR OTHER OTHER, OTHER I GUESS, PRIORITIES, AS YOU SAID, CONSIDERATIONS THAT CAUSE THEM TO NOT ADOPT THE RECOMMENDATION. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S A LOOSE END FROM THIS CONVERSATION IN TERMS OF MOVING FORWARD? ONE THING I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY OUR NEXT STEPS WITH THESE WORKSHOPS WAS THAT THE WORK SESSION, THE NEXT WORK SESSION IN JULY, WE WERE GOING TO BRING THE UPDATED ORDINANCE FORWARD. WOULD YOU? AND I'M ENVISIONING THAT WE CAN UPDATE THIS DEFINITION AND STILL BRING THAT ORDINANCE FORWARD. AND THE CONVERSATION AROUND THE DEFINITION COULD BE PART OF THAT BIGGER CONVERSATION AROUND THE ORDINANCE. THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE JUST TO BRING THE DEFINITION BACK. BUT I THINK WE'VE WE'VE GOT A GOOD SENSE OF YOUR CONCERNS. AND TO ME, WE CAN DO IT ALL IN THAT ONE WORK SESSION. BUT I JUST WANTED TO GET SOME CLARITY ON ON THAT. YEAH. OKAY. THE ORDINANCE DO THANK YOU. SO YEAH WE'LL COME I GUESS. READY TO WORDSMITH. AND IF ACTUALLY THAT UPDATED ORDINANCE WITH NEW WORDING UNDERLINED OR WHATEVER THE WORD BETTER IF THAT CAN BE AVAILABLE SOONER THAN THE PACKET, THEN COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN HAVE MORE TIME TO LOOK AT IT AND BE EVEN MORE CLEVER WITH THEIR WITH THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'LL HAVE THREE WEEKS FROM TODAY. IN THIS MEETING, WE'LL DO SOME WORK AND MAKE SURE THAT CAN GET OUT TO COUNCIL EARLY. ONE OTHER THING YOU'LL SEE IN THAT DRAFT IS THAT. A RECOMMENDATION TO PULL THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CREDIT, WE'VE BEEN KIND OF STRUGGLING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT DONE. THAT'S ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION FOR THE IMPACT FEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE IS JUST TO PULL IT ENTIRELY. I BELIEVE CAPTAIN SMITH WILL BE PRESENT TO DISCUSS OTHER OPTIONS FOR. YEAH, THE IDEA IS THAT WE WOULD PERHAPS
[01:40:02]
PULL THAT FROM THE ORDINANCE, BUT LOOK AT TRYING TO INCORPORATE IT INTO SOME OF OUR OTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES. SHE'S NOT AVAILABLE FOR THAT JULY 28TH WORK SESSION, SO WE MAY BRING THAT THAT THAT PIECE BACK AT THE AUGUST 11TH WORK SESSION. IT'S JUST THE WAY THAT IT'S CURRENTLY WORDED IN THE ORDINANCE. WE REALLY HAVE NO WAY TO ENFORCE IT. I MEAN, THERE THERE IS SOME LANGUAGE AROUND SORT OF THE HUD ELIGIBILITY, BUT WE HAVE NO WAY OF ENSURING THAT ONCE A DEVELOPMENT GETS THAT CREDIT, THAT THEY CONTINUE TO OFFER THAT INCENTIVE. WE DON'T REQUIRE THEM TO DO IT FOR A YEAR, 20 YEARS, 50 YEARS. THERE'S NO THERE'S JUST NO SORT OF LANGUAGE AND ENFORCEMENT LANGUAGE IN THERE. SO WE THINK THAT THAT IT MAY BE MORE EFFECTIVE TO TRY AND INCORPORATE THAT INTO SOME OF OUR OTHER CITYWIDE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES, AND THAT WE WOULD SEE BETTER RESULTS. THERE'S SOME A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND AFFORDABLE HOUSING, NOT JUST IN THE STATE, BUT ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL. THERE'S SOME DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE EMERGING IN THE STATE, SO THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN PULL FROM FROM THAT WORK AND THAT IT WOULD JUST WORK BETTER AND PERHAPS BE EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE AND EASIER TO IMPLEMENT IF IT WAS SORT OF OUTSIDE OF THAT ORDINANCE. THE OTHER DIFFICULTY HAS BEEN FUNDING THOSE THOSE CREDITS IS THAT TYPICALLY THE DEVELOPERS ASK THE CITY TO REACH INTO ITS OWN POCKET TO FUND THOSE. THAT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO DO TO. AND CATHERINE IS PARTICULARLY FOLLOWING THE HOUSING ISSUE. SO WHAT SHE DOES BRING TO US IS THAT AUGUST, THAT FIRST WORK SESSION IN AUGUST WILL BE. FRESH, RELEVANT INFORMATION ABOUT HOW AFFORDABILITY MIGHT BE BETTER ACHIEVED. SO BUT SO AS OUR ATTORNEY SAID, THAT ELEMENT WILL BE PULLED FROM WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU. AND I GUESS WE'LL SEE. STRIKE LANGUAGE. BUT IT DOES NOT REFLECT ANY KIND OF LACK OF COMMITMENT TO THE COUNCIL'S PRIORITY TO ADDRESS AFFORDABILITY ISSUE WITHIN THE CITY. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TRYING TO PULL DIFFERENT TOOLS TO FIT TOGETHER. SO JUST TO READ, YOU DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE AT RISK IF WE INCLUDE UNFINISHED BASEMENTS AND SOMEONE COMES AND SAYS, OH, THAT DOESN'T MEET THE TEST OF IMPACT. HE'S NO ONE'S LIVING DOWN THERE. NO ONE'S LIKE, HOW CAN YOU SHOW THAT THERE'S AN IMPACT TO THE CITY? SO I SAY FINISHED AND THEN DO A PERMIT WHEN WE'RE FINISHED. SO THE CHALLENGE, IF SOMEONE WERE TO CHALLENGE THAT, WHAT THEY'RE REALLY CHALLENGING IS YOUR LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS. RIGHT. AND THERE'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS YOUR LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT BASED ON ANY FACTS. RIGHT.BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD COME BACK AND SAY IS, WELL, WE LOOK AT THE AVERAGE SQUARE FOOT IN A HOME AND THESE SQUARE FOOT, THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, WHEN THEY WERE DOING THAT WORK INCLUDED BASEMENTS. AS YOU SEE BIGGER HOMES, YOU SEE THESE CHANGES IN THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. THEY WOULD NEED TO COME BACK AND SAY THAT THE CITY. SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT OTHER DATA, OR THAT THEY HAVE SOME DATA. AND I THINK THAT THE TROUBLE IS, IS THAT BASEMENTS ARE USED FOR A VARIETY OF THINGS. THEY CERTAINLY ARE.
BUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS EITHER YOU EXCLUDE BASEMENTS THAT ARE UNFINISHED OR YOU INCLUDE FINISHED, OR AIR CONDITIONING OR HEATING WOULD BE UNIQUE. YEAH.
IF WE ADOPTED AN UNFINISHED BASEMENT EXCEPTION TO THE IMPACT FEE, IN MY OPINION, WE WOULD BE THE ONLY COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES THAT'S DOING THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHERE YOU'RE SITTING. YEAH, I'M NOT SURE. OKAY. THIS TOOK A LITTLE LONGER. I MEAN, I'M NOT COMPLAINING, BUT I'M NOW JUST CONFUSED AS TO WHAT WOULD BE THE SMARTEST PATH FORWARD. SHOULD WE GO AHEAD AND DO OUR ANNOUNCEMENTS, CONCLUDE THIS MEETING AND TAKE A BREAK BEFORE WE GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? OR WOULD YOU LIKE A QUICK BIO BREAK NOW? AND THEN WE'LL DO ANNOUNCEMENTS AND THEN GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION BREAK NOW, BREAK LATER. I COULD USE A BREAK NOW. ALL RIGHT IT'S 45.
LET'S TRY TO GET BACK HERE AT 50. WE'LL TAKE A QUICK BREAK. WE'LL SEE IF THAT DOES REALLY? ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. WE'RE BACK ON LIVE. FROM OUR BREAK. IT GOES BACK TO THE WONDERFUL JOB OF FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. DAVID. ALL RIGHT. SO ALL YOUR CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING BROADCAST. HEY THAT'S WHAT OKAY. WE ARE MOVING ON. AND THE NEXT ITEM IS RELATED TO JUST
[Mayor and City Council]
MAYOR COUNCIL REPORTS I WILL START I PUT AT YOUR PLACE A CALENDAR. I DID NOT POPULATE IT[01:45:01]
WITH SEPTEMBER'S EVENTS. I DO APOLOGIZE, JUST TIME GOT AHOLD OF ME AND GOT AHOLD OF THAT. SO OVERCAME THAT SITUATION. NEW ONE HERE IS JULY 16TH. ADDED THE ANNUAL PUBLIC WORKS UTILITIES AND I PUT SLASH ENTERPRISE MEETING. I'M ASKING CHRIS RIGHT NOW TO CONSIDER ADDING GIFT TO HIS REPORT, BECAUSE THAT GIVES GIFT A PERMANENT LOCATION FOR AN ANNUAL REPORT RATHER THAN JUST WHENEVER WE REMEMBER TO DO IT IN THE SUMMER. BUT HE MAY NOT SUPPORT THAT IDEA, SO IT MAY NOT STICK. WE'LL SEE. ALSO, WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THE WATER COLLEGE TOUR ON AUGUST 19TH WILL BE OF INTEREST TO ANY OF YOU WHO FOLLOW WATER POLICY IN TERMS OF WATER QUANTITY, THE RIGHTS YOU KNOW SIDE OF IT. NOT NOT THE QUALITY, BECAUSE THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT CONVERSATION IN THE AREA OF EXPERTISE. BUT I WILL KNOW MORE BY THE END OF THIS WEEK WHAT THAT TOUR MIGHT BE SHAPING UP TO LOOK LIKE. AND SO STAY TUNED. LET'S SEE. LET ME MOVE ON. TODAY, THE SEVENTH IS THE DAY OF TOMORROW'S CELEBRATION OF ITS 70TH ANNIVERSARY. MAYOR MILAM IS THERE, REPRESENTING THE CITY OF IDAHO FALLS. WE DID SEND SOME SMALL PERSONAL GIFTS TO MAYOR YAMADA AND HIS WIFE. HOWEVER, A CITY GIFT IS ALSO HAS BEEN ORDERED AND IS BEING SHIPPED JUST TO COMMEMORATE CITY TO CITY THAT THAT MILESTONE FOR THEM. IT WAS CLEARLY IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR THEM TO HAVE A BIG CELEBRATION. SO THAT'S HAPPENING TODAY, MOVING, SORT OF CONTINUING WITH THE CALENDAR MINDSET. TOMORROW WE HAVE OUR FIRST BUDGET, TUESDAY, THE AGENDA RUNS FROM 12, 15, NOT 12, BUT 1215 UNTIL WE FINISH. BUT I ANTICIPATE IT RUNNING UNTIL ROUGHLY FOUR.THAT'S THAT'S A THAT'S A GUESS. SOME THINGS MAY TAKE US LONGER. SURPRISE, SURPRISE. OTHER THINGS MAY GO RAPIDLY. SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT ROLLS, AS WE'VE DONE FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS ON BUDGET TUESDAY, BECAUSE WE'RE KEEPING EVERYBODY HERE FOR SUCH A LARGE CHUNK OF TIME. WE WILL HAVE A LIGHTER, SIMPLE KIND OF I'LL SAY IT'S NOT A FEAST, BUT JUST A LUNCH TOMORROW WITH PIZZA AND SALAD. AND THAT WILL BE SERVED STARTING AT 1145, AND IT WILL BE AVAILABLE UNTIL WE START THE MEETING. BUT THERE MAY BE PIZZA THAT LINGERS IF PEOPLE NEED SNACKS AFTER THAT, DEPENDING ON HOW QUICKLY IT GETS GOBBLED UP THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR COUNCIL AND STAFF FOR SUPPORTING THE MEETING. LET'S SEE. BUT THE MEETING IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, SO WE SHOULD PROBABLY REMEMBER OUR MOM'S HEAD IS NOT TO BE NOT POLITE TO EAT IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE. SO WE SHOULD PROBABLY BE A LITTLE DISCREET QUICK. I MOVED IT TO 1215, IN THE HOPES THAT THOSE COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO WORKED WOULDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE SO EARLY. LEAVING AT NOON SEEMS TO BE LESS TERRIBLE THAN LEAVING BEFORE NOON, SO HOPEFULLY THAT WILL HELP A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. SO THIS WEEK IS A BUSY WEEK, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE MEETINGS TODAY, TOMORROW AND THURSDAY WITH OUR EVENING MEETING. THE EVENING MEETING RIGHT NOW IS LOOKING TO HAVE ROUGHLY TEN ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, AND SOME THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED SINCE I LAST LOOKED ON FRIDAY. ONE MORE ITEM. OKAY, WE HAVE 11 ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. THE CONSENT AGENDA IS RATHER SMALL WITH JUST THINGS THAT ARE RELATED TO MINUTES AND SUCH, BUT THE OTHER THE BULK OF THE REGULAR AGENDA WE HAVE I THINK TWO HEARINGS. WE HAVE SOME REGULAR SIMPLE PURCHASE ITEMS AND SUCH. WE ALSO HAVE A SLIGHTLY LONGER PRESENTATION RELATED TO AN AMENDMENT TO AN EXISTING URBAN RENEWAL DISTRICT. SO THERE'LL BE A PRESENTATION FROM A CONSULTANT ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. SO IT WON'T BE A MARATHON MEETING BY ANY MEANS, BUT IT WILL TAKE A LITTLE LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES. SO SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE, WE HAD ANTICIPATED AN AWARD TO BE GIVEN THAT NIGHT, BUT THAT HAS BEEN PUSHED TO LATER IN THE MONTH. AND SO WE'LL ADDRESS THAT THEN. OTHER THINGS I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU THAT, OKAY, WE HAVE THE 15TH AND 16TH NEXT TUESDAY BUDGET TUESDAY AND THE 16TH, WHICH IS A DAY FOR OUR ANNUAL PUBLIC WORKS MEETING.
FROM WHAT I SEE, WE HAVE, I JUST WANTED TO DISCUSS QUORUM ON TUESDAY, JOHN WOULD BE OUT OF TOWN AND WEDNESDAY ON TUESDAY, MICHELLE WILL BE OUT OF TOWN ON CITY BUSINESS, WHICH IS IT'S ON THE CALENDAR IS BTEC. I WILL NOT BE AT TECH. OKAY. SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT YOU'LL BE HERE.
I'LL BE HERE. OKAY. WELL, THAT MIGHT TAKE AWAY OUR WORRY BECAUSE, KIRK, YOU'RE JOINING US REMOTELY, SO WE'VE GOT HIM NOT HERE. HIM REMOTE AND THE REST OF EVERYBODY HERE. WE SHOULD BE ALL RIGHT WHEN I SAY HIM, I'M SORRY. I MEAN, TUESDAY, I COULD PROBABLY ATTEND REMOTELY,
[01:50:06]
DEPENDING ON THE TIME FRAME. WELL, AND IT LOOKS LIKE OUR POINT AT SOME POINT. OKAY, OUR QUORUM MAY BE SECURE, BUT YOU ARE MOST WELCOME TO JOIN BECAUSE IT YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER INSISTS THE BUDGET. THEY WANT TO VERY MUCH BE PART OF WHAT YOU CAN BE. I'M SENDING YOU THE LINK RIGHT NOW. THANKS. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT TAKES CARE OF THAT. THE 16TH, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND RIGHT NOW, I THINK OUR START TIME IS 530. I THINK IT WAS SIX. I THINK IT MIGHT BE SIX. AND I DID ASK CHRIS IF HE WANTED TO START EARLIER SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THE MPO AND WHATEVER, BUT HE WANTED TO KEEP IT THERE. I'M NOT POSITIVE WHY, BUT IT MIGHT. I DIDN'T ASK, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU'LL BE COMING BACK FROM SOMETHING, KIRK, AND SO A LITTLE LATER WORKS FOR YOU. WE'LL JUST KEEP IT AT SIX UNTIL WE KNOW MORE. ABOUT A POSSIBLE CHANGE. LET'S SEE. I ALSO WANTED TO ASK LISA AND KIRK IF THEY COULD JUST STAY AFTER OUR EXECUTIVE SESSION TO PUT HEADS TOGETHER ON THE NEXT BUDGET TUESDAY. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU ABOUT SETTING THAT AGENDA. SO IF YOU COULD STAY AFTER THE EXECUTIVE SESSION. OKAY. MOVING ON. THIS THESE MATERIALS HERE ARE QUITE HEAVY. THEY LOOK LIKE A PIECE OF COLORED NOTEBOOK. PAPER, BUT THEY'RE SAMPLES. SAMPLES THAT ARE THE SAME MATERIAL THAT COVER OUR NEW ELEVATOR ADDITIONS. AND, LISA, YOU MIGHT WANT TO ROUND OUT WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY HERE, BUT THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT HEY, IT'S REMEMBER WE LEARNED THAT IF YOU CAN'T REPLICATE YOUR THE FACADE OF A OR A CHANGE THAT YOU MAKE TO A NEW BUILDING, THEN YOU JUST WANT TO GO ALL OUT, HAVE FUN AND CALL IT THIS IS NEW. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO TRY TO ALMOST MAKE IT LOOK RIGHT WITH THE WRONG MATERIAL. SO THAT THAT WAS SORT OF A PREFERENCE STYLE APPROACH THAT WE'D HEARD FROM ARCHITECTS. SO WHEN THIS BUILDING CAME ON, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOTHERED ME AND I HEARD THOUGHTS FROM OTHERS, WHY IS THERE A WHITE STRIP WHEN THE REST OF OUR HISTORIC BUILDING HAS A MORE OF A CREAM COLORED KIND OF LINE DIVIDER LINES, GREEK MARBLE, GRANITE COLOR, WHATEVER. AND SO THE ARCHITECT EXPLAINED TO ME, AND THEN LATER ON TO EVERYBODY HERE, BUT WAS WILLING TO WORK WITH US TO MAYBE FIND ANOTHER COLOR FOR THE TRIM.AND ALL THE COLORS THAT THEY FOUND SEEM TO ME, AND NOT WHATEVER THIS MATERIAL IS MADE, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO COME INTO COLOR. THAT REALLY CAPTURES WHAT OUR ROOM LOOKS LIKE. AND SO I WANTED TO SHOW YOU THAT THESE WERE THE CLOSEST ONES. AND WHEN YOU HOLD THEM UP. LISA AND I DIDN'T GO LIVE WITH PAM, BUT WE DID IT. I MEAN, I THINK YOU COULD EVEN THINK ABOUT FROM HERE. AND SO WE PENDING YOUR THUMBS UP ON THIS ONE THOUGHT THIS ISN'T WORTH THE DOLLARS TO PUT ANOTHER COLOR IN IN PLACE OF THE WHITE THAT ALSO DOESN'T PICK UP A TONE THAT WE THINK IT COULD PICK UP. SO THESE WERE THE SAMPLES THAT WE HAD. AND THIS IS WHERE WE LEFT IT WITH. WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING UNLESS THERE IS DIFFERENT WILL FROM THE COUNCIL.
SO I CAN PASS THESE AROUND OR I CAN JUST LEAVE THEM HERE AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM. BUT THAT'S WHERE THAT THAT'S WHAT THOSE ARE. SO OVERALL THE MATERIAL IS STILL REALLY SATISFACTORY. IT'S THE HIGH QUALITY MEANT TO HANDLE WEATHER REALLY, REALLY WELL. SO IT'S STILL WE'RE STILL HAPPY WITH THE CONSTRUCTION AND THE DESIGN OF THE MATERIALS USED. IT WAS JUST A COLOR THING. AND AT THIS POINT MY WORRIES IN LIFE HAVE MOVED BEYOND WHETHER THAT'S WHITE OR CREAM OR WHATEVER.
LISA. YEAH, HE JUST SAID. OR ARE THEY TOO DARK? BUT IT WAS THAT THEY JUST WERE TOO YELLOW.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS MORE IN LIKE THIS MUTED TONE, AND THEN YOU JUST KIND OF POP A BROWN OR A POP OF YELLOW IN THERE, AND IT WAS MORE JARRING. IT WAS JARRING. TRUST. YOU'RE GOOD.
YEAH. IT'S LIKE WHITE WAS AND ACTUALLY SHOWED THE ELEVATOR TO A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS WHO WERE IN TOWN THIS WEEK, AND NEITHER ONE OF THEM SAID, OH, WHY DID YOU PUT THAT WHITE STRIPE? RIGHT? WELL, IF WE CHANGE IT, THEN WE START THE ADJUSTING PERIOD ALL OVER AGAIN. WELL, YES. AND GETTING USED TO IT, WE'RE GETTING USED TO IT AND YOU'RE GETTING FEWER COMMENTS.
IF WE CHANGE IT, THEN WE REFRESH THAT HOLE. AT THE END OF THE DAY, I KNOW I WASN'T ALONE, BUT IT FEELS LIKE IT, SO I'LL TAKE THE BLAME. THEY HUMORED ME AND I AM GRATEFUL, AND I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU FOR ME TOO, BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE IT. BUT BUT I HEARD, I HEARD COMMENTS, SO I WAS FOLLOWING THROUGH ON THOSE JUST LIKE WE ALL DO WHEN WE HEAR THINGS. SO. ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON. URBAN RENEWAL. LET'S SEE, OTHER THAN OKAY, THERE ARE TWO ANNOUNCEMENTS HERE THAT I RECEIVED FROM THE CHIEF AND DARREN SORRY FROM HR DIRECTOR DARREN JONES AND FROM CHIEF. NELSON. YES. THANK YOU. AND THAT IS THAT WE ARE SENDING SOME
[01:55:06]
FIREFIGHTERS TO REPRESENT OUR DEPARTMENT AS PART OF A MUTUAL AID. WE ARE NOT SENDING THEM TO BE THERE TO PARTICIPATE IN, IN THE SOLEMN FUNERAL SERVICE SO MUCH AS TO PROVIDE BACKUP FIRE SERVICE IF THEY CAN BE AT THE FUNERAL UNTIL THERE'S A CALL, AND THEN THEY LEAVE FUNERAL AND THEY GO, SOME OF THEM ARE IN THE PIPES AND DRUMS, AND THEY I THINK THEY INTEND TO PLAY SOMEWHERE DURING THIS TIME THERE. THANK YOU. SO WE'LL HAVE SOME FROM SERVICES AND SOME WHO ARE THERE FOR MUTUAL AID, BUT OUR VEHICLES WILL NOT BE SENT, SO OUR VEHICLES WILL NOT BE PART OF MUTUAL AID, WILL ARRIVE ALONG WITH THEM OR ON SOME OTHER AGENCY VEHICLES. I THINK GIVEN THE SHOCK THAT THAT SENT THROUGH THE SYSTEM. AND THE UNCERTAINTY, THE ADDITIONAL UNCERTAINTY THAT IT INTRODUCED FOR FIREFIGHTERS WHO ALREADY RESPOND BLINDLY, JUST LIKE OUR ALL OF OUR FIRST RESPONDERS, THEY RESPOND, LIKELY THEY ONLY KNOW WHAT THEY HEAR FROM DISPATCH. AND DISPATCH DOESN'T GIVE THEM LIMITED INFORMATION ON PURPOSE. WE ONLY KNOW WHAT WE KNOW WHEN SOMEBODY IS MAKING AN URGENT CALL. AND SO BUT THIS INTRODUCED A WHOLE NEW KIND OF UNCERTAINTY. AND IT JUST BASICALLY GIVES THE ADDITIONAL REASONS TO RESPECT THE COURAGE OF THOSE WHO SERVE IN THESE COMMUNITIES AND PROFESSIONS. AND I AM FULLY SUPPORTIVE OF OUR DEPARTMENT PARTICIPATING IN THE WAY THAT WE WORK. AND IN THIS CASE, WE ARE SENDING VEHICLES, STAFF VEHICLES. SO GAS IS ON THE CITY. EMPLOYEE RECOGNITION PROGRAM. WE HAVE BEEN EVERY QUARTER PICKING A VALUE TO HIGHLIGHT HAVING EMPLOYEES NOMINATE THEIR COLLEAGUES AND PEERS WHO EXEMPLIFY THAT VALUE.AND SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE THE SUPPORT WE HAVE ABOUT ANOTHER WEEK, A WEEK AND A COUPLE OF DAYS LEFT IN THE NOMINATION PHASE. IF YOU ARE AWARE OF SOMEONE THAT YOU HAVE INTERACTED WITH IN THE CITY, I DON'T THINK THAT HR WOULD OBJECT TO TAKING A NOMINATION FROM YOU. BUT IF YOU OR IF YOU WANT TO JUST WHISPER IN THE EAR OF A DIRECTOR OR SOMEBODY TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEONE WAS NOMINATED, YOU HAVE THAT TO THAT, THAT SAME OPPORTUNITY. AND I THINK I'LL BE QUIET AND WE'LL GO AROUND THE ROOM, STARTING WITH OUR COUNCIL PRESIDENT. I'LL MAKE THAT. I REACHED OUT TO IAN, AND IAN HAS REACHED OUT TO. HOLES IN SIMPSON'S OFFICE, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE $12 MILLION WAS IN THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL, BUT WE'RE JUST SO. AND I WOULD AT FIRST BECAUSE EVERY ALL INDICATORS WERE IT'S THERE FOR THE FOR THE 12 MILLION BUT FOR THE EARMARK I SHOULD SAY. BUT EVEN THEN I THINK SIMPSON'S OFFICE ISN'T CALLING US. IT MUST MEAN THAT THEY DON'T, THAT THEY'RE SLOW WITH THE BAD NEWS. AND IT'S NOT. EVERYBODY IS HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING DETAILS. NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. SO AND THE SAME GOES FOR CDBG.
YEAH, LISA FARIS IS NOT AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW. I THINK SHE MAY BE OUT TODAY. AND IF SHE'S NOT, SHE WASN'T REACHABLE WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO REACH HER. AND SO WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF CDBG, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING AND SOME OF YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF, YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING, IS THAT ANYTHING THAT WAS IN THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL IS FOR THE NEXT BUDGET, SO IT WILL NOT AFFECT THE DOLLARS THAT WE HAD A HEARING ABOUT A FEW WEEKS AGO. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S ONLY FOR SPENDING. IT'S MANDATORY SPENDING MIGHT SNAP LIKE WHERE IF YOU QUALIFY YOU GET IT. SO THAT'S WHAT WAS IN THIS VERSION IS MY UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE CDBG CDBG WE USE AND IT'S THAT'S IN THE NEXT STEP. WE'RE STARTING NOW OKAY. FOR THINGS LIKE DOE SPENDING OKAY. SO IT WASN'T IN THE BILL THEN. WE MAY BE IT'S A LITTLE MORE TIME TO RALLY. THANK YOU I UNDERSTAND THAT CITY CLERK MAY BE TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A PROGRAM BASED ON IMPACTS THAT THIS BILL WILL HAVE ON IDAHO, AND THAT'LL BE AN INTERESTING PROGRAM. IT WOULDN'T BE UNTIL THE FALL. EARLY FALL, PERHAPS, BUT THAT COULD BE VERY INSTRUCTIVE AND INFORMATIVE, DEPENDING ON HOW THEY PUT THAT CONVERSATION TOGETHER. SO I'LL KEEP YOU INFORMED BECAUSE IT COULD BE WORTH. GETTING A LIST OF. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. LISA. ANYTHING ELSE? THAT WAS EVERYTHING. OKAY, COUNSELOR OR COUNSELOR? BRITTANY, I'LL JUST REMIND PEOPLE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF PARKS AND RECREATION PEOPLE WERE GOING TO MENTION THIS, BUT I GOT A GOLF SURVEY ABOUT MAKING TEE TIMES AT THE GOLF COURSES. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU, IF YOU GET THE EMAIL ABOUT IT, NOT TO NOT TO GET RID OF IT, BUT TO FILL IT OUT. EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T PLAY GOLF. THERE MIGHT BE SOME QUESTIONS ON THERE YOU CAN ANSWER. SO IT HAS BEEN A DIFFICULT SUMMER. THERE'S A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, I THINK, THAT HAVE FIGURED OUT THE SYSTEM WITH, WITH BOOKING TEE TIMES AND THEY AND THEY TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF TIMES AND THEN THEY CANCEL THEM LATER. SO IF YOU WANT TO
[02:00:01]
GET ON THERE AND TRY TO GET A TEE TIME JUST THE OTHER DAY, I TRIED TO GET ON IT RIGHT AT 7 A.M. I WAS ON ONLINE AT FIVE MINUTES TILL AS SOON AS THE TEE TIMES POPPED UP, IT TOOK MY WIFE AND I BOTH WORKING TO FIND ONE. I MEAN, YOU CLICK ON THEM SECONDS AFTER THEY ARE AVAILABLE AND THEY SAY THIS TEE TIME IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE IN A ROW FOR ON AND ON AND ON. SO IT WAS REALLY A DIFFICULT THING. THE OTHER THING I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT WAS THE FIREFIGHTERS GOING UP TO COEUR D'ALENE, BUT YOU HANDLED THAT. THE COURSE SURVEY ABOUT THE GOING BACK AND FORTH, I'M SORRY, IS ABOUT 16 QUESTIONS I'LL ASK YOU ABOUT. HAVE YOU TRIED TO GET A TEE TIME? IF YOU HAVEN'T, IF YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, DON'T PLAY. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. BUT IT'S KIND OF A IT'S THEY'RE AWARE THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM, RIGHT, TO GET TEE TIMES ESPECIALLY ON THE WEEKENDS ANYMORE. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COURSES ARE AVAILABLE, ARE AWARE OF IT, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THANK YOU. OKAY. RODEO TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE. THE WARBONNET RODEO MORE ABOUT ROUNDUP, I SHOULD SAY JULY 30TH THROUGH AUGUST 2ND. MILLION LINKS ONLINE OUT OF FALLS, IDAHO.GOV. THE MUTTON BUSTIN PRE-QUALIFYING EVENT IS JULY 30TH SO REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED. SO PARKS AND REC HAS GOT A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON. SOMETIMES THEY SAY THAT YOUR HOME LIKE I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE DOING AT ALL BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY THERE'S SO MANY SERVICES THAT WE'RE OFFERING. RED BALL TENNIS. THERE'S A FREE EVENT HAPPENING JULY 15TH. THE INDOOR PICKLEBALL COURTS AT TOM'S PARK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT RED BALL TENNIS IS GOOD BECAUSE I AND CAN I INTERJECT SOMETHING? YEAH, THEY GOT THAT PICKLEBALL COURT ON LINCOLN RESURFACED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. IT'S CLEARED NOW AND THEY'RE PLAYING ON IT. SO I SAW PEOPLE PLAYING ON IT WHEN I WENT TO COSTCO. EVERY TIME I LEAVE COSTCO, THE COURTS ARE FULL. YEAH, YEAH. IT WAS IT WAS DOWN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS WHILE THEY WERE REDOING THE SURFACE. IT WAS BAD. YEAH.ANYWAY, THAT IS DONE. I'VE NOT HAD ANYTHING ELSE IN THERE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANKS FOR THE RADIO MENTION, I AM DELINQUENT. I MEANT TO DO IT ON LAST THURSDAY. AND THEN THE SUGGESTION WAS IT'S GOING TO GET LOST OVER THE WEEKEND, WAIT TILL MONDAY MORNING. AND THEN I DIDN'T DO IT FOR ANYONE. BUT CITY EMPLOYEES DO ARE OFFERED ONE TICKET TO THE WARBONNET A COMPLIMENTARY TICKET, AND THEN MANY TIMES THAT THAT TURNS ITSELF INTO MANY MORE TICKETS BEING PURCHASED AS THEY BRING, YOU KNOW, FRIENDS AND FAMILY. SO THAT IS OUR, OUR PRACTICE. THAT EMAIL WILL GO OUT EITHER TONIGHT OR TOMORROW. SUMMER READING THE LIBRARY PURCHASED 4000 TICKETS TO GIVE AWAY AS PRIZES. WOW, THAT FUN LAND DONATED ANOTHER 2000 STUPID THINGS THEY'RE DOING. SO EVERY CHILD IN SUMMER READING CAN GET A FREE RIDE AT ONE POINT, IF THEY'VE READ SO MANY BOOKS, IT'S USUALLY THE FIRST EIGHT BOOKS ARE THE FIRST TIMES. AND I'LL JUST SAY SOMETHING FROM PUBLIC WORKS AND I THINK LEGAL TOO. BUT KIND OF REMIND MYSELF AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT THE STATE CHANGED THE RULES FOR SANITATION, CONSTRUCTION, CONTAINERS SO THAT PRIVATE COMPANIES CAN DO THAT. SO PUBLIC WORKS AND LEGAL ARE WORKING ON AN ORDINANCE THAT WILL ADAPT TO THAT. SO WE WON'T YOU KNOW, UP TO THIS POINT, THE CITY'S BEEN THE ONLY ONE THAT PROVIDES THOSE CONTAINERS. SO THAT CHANGED BY STATE STATUTE I THINK I OPPOSED THAT, BUT IT PASSED. WE DID.
YEAH, BUT IT PASSED. AND SO IT WILL COME TO US WHEN IT'S READY BUT DIDN'T KNOW. IT'S A STEP THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE TO MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT TO THAT. THE UNFORTUNATE THING WHEN WE WERE ASKED TO DO THAT MANY YEARS AGO IS THAT OUR ENTIRE FEE STRUCTURE IN SANITATION IS BUILT ON SOME OF THE REVENUES THAT WE RECEIVE, INCLUDING THE REVENUES WE RECEIVE FROM THOSE DUMPSTERS, THE LARGE DUMPSTERS THAT ARE RENTED OUT BY CONSTRUCTION SITES. AND SO THAT REVENUE PERHAPS BECOMES WE ARE IF OTHERS ARE OFFERING THAT SERVICE AT A LOWER RATE, THEN WE WILL HAVE LESS REVENUE. OUR FEES WILL THEN HAVE TO GO UP. SO IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE DEVELOPMENT FOR OUR CITIZENS WHO NOW MAY BE SUBSIDIZING THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN THE FORM OF HIGHER RATES FOR THEIR TRASH CANS, BUT THAT'S HOW IT ROLLS. THANK YOU. MY ONLY COMMENT WAS, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, DIDN'T HE ALSO HE BEAT CHRIS ALSO TALK ABOUT THERE'S GOING TO WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME GUIDELINES AS TO WHERE THEY PLACE THOSE ON SITE. SO THOSE WILL BE PART OF THE CODE AS WELL. SO THAT, YOU KNOW WE HAVE A WRITTEN CODE YET WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. SO I JUST
[02:05:03]
THOUGHT THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO THAT. THERE'S SOME OTHER PARTS OF THAT THAT WE NEED TO KIND OF FINE TUNE SOME CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE GETTING ABOUT THE SAME TIME THAT ARE WE HAVE TO TAKE BACK ON. SO WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO BRING YOU KIND OF A ROBUST CHANGE.OKAY. AND IS THERE A PARTICULAR SCHEDULE FOR THAT? I GUESS JULY 1ST IS ALREADY UPON US. YEAH.
WE, WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO DO. GET TO THIS THURSDAY AND I HAVE A WORK SESSION. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, BUT ALL RIGHT. WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO IRON OUT A FEW. ALL RIGHT. YES.
SOMETHING ELSE. YEAH. JUST A THOUGHT. WHAT ABOUT JULY 4TH WITH THE POLICE AND ABOUT REALLY? EVERYTHING WENT VERY WELL. THE ONLY PROBLEM THEY HAD WAS DURING THE FIREWORKS SHOW.
THEY HAD A SWAT CALL OUT. SO THEY HAD THEY HAD TO TAKE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE FIREWORKS TO SEND ON THE SWAT CALL. AND SO THEY THEY WERE RUNNING A LITTLE SHORT, BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE AT THE TIME. YOU KNOW, IT TURNED OUT THAT THERE WASN'T ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED SO RESOLVED BEFORE THE FIREWORKS. OKAY. IT WAS HAPPENING IN THE EARLIER PART OF THE EVENING. AND I WAS IN TOUCH WITH CHIEF TRYING TO ASSESS WHERE WE WERE. AND I HE GOT HE GAVE ME THE ALL CLEAR, I THINK AROUND 8:00. OKAY. BEFORE THE FIREWORKS. OKAY. YEAH. OR MAYBE IT WAS 830, BUT I DO BUG HIM A LOT. I WAS IN CONVERSATION WITH BOTH OF THEM. I'M GLAD YOU RAISED THIS WITH BOTH OF THEM, BECAUSE PRETTY MUCH ON 4TH OF JULY, I DON'T BREATHE UNTIL MIDNIGHT BECAUSE YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WHAT KIND OF DAY THAT WILL BE WITH PEOPLE PLAYING WITH EXPLOSIVES, RIGHT? WITH EXPLOSIVES. BUT IT WAS OVERALL A GOOD DAY. WE ONLY HAD A FEW CHILDREN WHO WERE IMPACTED. I WENT OVER AND VISITED THE POLICE. HAD MAYBE SOME OF YOU DID WHILE YOU WERE OUT THERE AND THE POLICE, THE DIMINISHED GROUP THAT WERE ON DUTY WERE SAID THINGS WERE FINE.
THEY WEREN'T TERRIBLY BUSY. IT WAS GOOD PR YOU SAW YOUNG PEOPLE COME ON, YOU KNOW, GET A STICKER OR HAVE A GOOD INTERACTION OR GET TEASED BY AN OFFICER OR SOMETHING REALLY GOOD LOCATION THAT THERE. SPEAKING OF LOCATION, MAYBE SOME OF YOU DID HEAR MR. ANDERSON'S COMMENTS ABOUT HOW WE MAY HAVE REACHED THE POINT WHERE GROWTH AT SNAKE RIVER LANDING, WHICH IS GROWTH THAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, BUT THAT GROWTH MAY ENCROACH UPON THE SPACE THAT MAKES THE FIREWORKS, MAKES THAT A GOOD SITE FOR THE FIREWORKS, OR HAS MADE IT A GOOD SITE. AND I THINK IN PARTICULAR, THEY'RE SENSITIVE ABOUT PARKING MORE SO THAN THE LAUNCH SPACE. AND SO THEY ARE IN EARNEST LOOKING AT ADDITIONAL SITES. AND I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE ONE OF THE SITES THAT WE SHARED WITH ME, WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, I'LL BE HAPPY TO SHARE IT IN A MEETING FOR DISCUSSION. BUT I THINK IT IF THEY WERE TO GO WITH THAT SITE BASED ON WHAT LITTLE I KNOW, IT COULD BE VERY MAKE FOR A VERY SMOOTH TRANSITION. IT IT'S QUITE LIKELY, AS YOU GUYS WOULD PROBABLY TELL ME. YEAH, I GET IT, THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FIND A SITE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS. IT MAY END UP BEING MORE OF A COUNTY KIND OF EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN AN IDAHO FALLS EXPERIENCE, BUT I DON'T THINK. BUT THE CITY WILL STILL HAVE THE SAME, I THINK, LEVEL OF ACTIVITY AND COMMERCE DURING THE DAY AND THE EVENING. WE'LL STILL HAVE TRAFFIC IMPACTS CURRENTLY, THE WAY WE HANDLE THE DAY IS WITH THE MULTI-AGENCY APPROACH. RIGHT. WE'VE GOT IDAHO STATE POLICE, WE'VE GOT BONNEVILLE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, WE'VE GOT POLICE FIRE. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER OUTSIDE OF THE CITY GROUPS THAT ARE A PART OF THIS. I THINK WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE A MULTI-AGENCY APPROACH. WHAT WILL CHANGE, PERHAPS, IS THE LOCATION CHANGES WOULD BE INCIDENT COMMAND, WHO'S IN CHARGE FIRST. AND IT MAY NOT BE THE CITY FALLS POLICE DEPARTMENT ON SAFETY ISSUES. IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY ELSE OR LAW ENFORCEMENT ELEMENTS, SOMEBODY ELSE. SO ANYWAY, WE'LL WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT GOES. BUT I THINK WE'LL BE ON THE. TWO OTHER QUICK THINGS.
YEAH. SO REMEMBER WE REJECTED THE SLUDGE HAULING CONTRACT BECAUSE THE CONTRACT HAD BEEN CHANGED BY THE BIDDER TO BE UNREASONABLE. IT'S BEEN RESOLVED. IT'LL COME TO US ON THURSDAY, WHICH IS ALL GOOD WORK BY PUBLIC WORKS. AND THEN LAST THING, MAYBE IT'S JUST ME, BUT I THINK OUR NOISE ORDINANCE HAS HELPED ME KEEP THE FOCUS OF THE FIREWORKS. AND IT SEEMED TO DIE OFF IN MY MIND SUNDAY THAT IT WASN'T SO BAD. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET THE LIAISON, BUT POLICE WERE PRETTY HAPPY WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCES. IT'S SPECIFIC, AND IT HELPS TO IDENTIFY WHEN THE FIREWORKS. YEAH, WE DIDN'T MENTION THAT TODAY, BUT YEAH, I THINK I
[02:10:04]
NOTICED A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE THIS YEAR OR TWO THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COUPLE OF NIGHTS IT WENT TILL AFTER MIDNIGHT. BUT, BUT IT, IT DIDN'T GO FOR FIVE NIGHTS IN A ROW. YEAH. RIGHT.YEAH. IT WAS MORE LIKE THREE NIGHTS. IT'S NOT A DOCUMENTED NUMBER OF EXPLOSIONS, BUT IT'S JUST MY IMPRESSION THAT IT WAS MORE THAT THEY WERE SHOOTING RIGHT OVER MY HOUSE. I FELT LIKE THE TOTAL OPPOSITE. YOU FELT LIKE YOUR NEIGHBORS MUST HAVE MOVED TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD WITHOUT. WITHOUT A DOUBT. YEAH. I'M SORRY. ONE THING THAT I DID SEE ONLINE A LOT, AND THEN I JUST LIVE ON THAT ROAD, IS I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY PUBLISH WHEN WE'RE DOING A STREET SWEEP, BECAUSE THERE WAS LOTS OF CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT. AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN STREET SWEEPING BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO DOUBLE THE COST. LIKE WAITING TILL MONDAY WASN'T THE END OF THE WORLD. BUT IF PEOPLE WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT, THEN MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE. SUCH A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION. THERE WAS A LOT OF THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT ONLINE AND NOBODY WAITED TILL MONDAY. AND THEY WERE THERE THIS MORNING WHEN I WAS DRIVING. SO THEY WERE WE DID GET AN INQUIRY FROM CHANNEL EIGHT, AND WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM ON A STORY THAT SORT OF EXPLAINED WHAT THAT SCHEDULE LOOKS LIKE AND ALSO HIGHLIGHTS KIND OF EVERYTHING THAT PUBLIC WORKS DOES TO SUPPORT THE PARADE AND GET EVERYTHING IN PLACE. I DON'T THINK THEY WERE ABLE TO GET SCHEDULES IN LINE TODAY, BUT I THINK YOU'LL SEE THAT STORY IN THE NEXT DAY OR TWO. THANK YOU.
SPEAKING OF CONVERSATIONS, WE ARE HEARING SOME VARIOUS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT GOLF, AND WHILE WE HAVE OUR ATTORNEY HERE, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE WHAT I THINK I HAVE LEARNED. BUT I'M YOU CAN BE THE FINAL ARBITER IF YOU HAVE THIS INFORMATION IN THE YEAR AGO. BUT IN TERMS OF THE LIABILITY FOR A STRAY GOLF BALL, THAT HAS NOT CHANGED, WHAT CHANGED IS THAT YOU TOOK IT OFF OF A SCORECARD, AND I THINK STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN TO REEDUCATE FOLKS ABOUT THAT. BUT THERE IS ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT LIABILITY THAT COMES FROM. THE WHAT DO YOU CALL IT. YOU'RE JUST PRACTICING YOUR SHOTS AND THERE'S A NET THAT CATCHES THE BALL. OH, THE DRIVING RANGE. THE DRIVING RANGE. NO, ACTUALLY IT'S NOT DRIVING. IT'S ABOUT NETS. AND I PUT UP THE NET, NOT JUST THE NET, THE DRIVING RANGE, BUT NETS IN OTHER PLACES AND HOW IT MIGHT IMPACT HOMEOWNERS, PARTICULARLY THEIR BACKYARDS AT SAGE LAKES. AND ONCE AGAIN, THE LIABILITY IS ON A PERSON SHOOTING THE BALL. BUT IT PROPOSES NOT JUST A DAMAGE DANGER, BUT PERHAPS AN INJURY DANGER, FOLKS. AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT. HAS THAT IS THAT SOMETHING THAT HAS CROSSED YOUR DESK YET ABOUT THAT, THAT OUR NETTING IS INADEQUATE TO HELP PROTECT HOMEOWNERS? WE LOOKED AT NETTING QUESTION, BUT I FELT LIKE IT WAS AT PINECREST EARLIER THIS YEAR.
I THINK IT'S THE SAME. THE TROUBLE WITH GOLF COURSES IS THAT THE LAW OF NEGLIGENCE IS WHAT APPLIES. SO YOU HAVE TO PROVE IF YOU WANT TO HOLD THE CITY OR THE COURSE OWNER RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGES, THAT THE COURSE WAS DESIGNED NEGLIGENTLY. IT'S AN IMPOSSIBLE STANDARD TO REACH. AND SO THAT WOULD BE THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IT'S NEGLIGENT NOT TO INSTALL NETTING AROUND THE COURSE. AND SO I HAVEN'T HEARD THE, THE SUGGESTION THAT SAGE LAKE REQUIRES NETTING IN SOME PLACES IN ORDER TO NOT HAVE A NEGATIVE DESIGN. I MAY HAVE JUMPED TO A CONCLUSION ABOUT THE LOCATION, BY THE WAY. I'LL KEEP GOING. I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT WE HAVE SPENT IN MY OFFICE SOME CONSIDERABLE TIME. WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN UP AT SAGE LAKES WHO HAS VIOLATED THE LAW. AND HE'S CURRENTLY BEING PROSECUTED FOR HIS CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS, BUT IT'S ASSOCIATED TO HIS BELIEF THAT THE THAT THE GOLF COURSE IS PUTTING HIS HOME AT RISK. AND IN HIS VIEW, HE'S HE'S NOT BATTERED ANYONE. HE'S MERELY USED SELF DEFENSE OF HIS PROPERTY. IT'LL BE AN INTERESTING CASE. WE ARE NOT PROSECUTING THAT THE COUNTY PROSECUTORS OKAY. THE PARTICULAR SCENARIO WAS THE KIDS CAN'T PLAY IN THE BACKYARD BECAUSE THE KIDS. YEAH, THAT WAS FUN. AND SO AND I THINK PART OF THAT IS COMING FROM THE FACT THAT THE STORM ABOUT 4 OR 5, SIX YEARS AGO, THAT TOOK OUT A LOT OF OLD BIG TREES, MAY HAVE SORT OF DECIMATED THE BRINK THAT THAT CAUGHT A LOT OF TREES IN THE PAST. SO ANYWAY, I DON'T KNOW WHERE I HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY INQUIRIES. I JUST READ SOME OF THESE CONCERNS. SO WE'LL DEAL WITH INQUIRIES AS THEY COME. I HEARD BACK FROM THEM, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS A GOOD CONVERSATION, AND PINE CREST HAS A PLAN ALREADY TO FIX THAT NET TO GO HIGHER. SO NUMBER TWO. YEAH, BUT THE FELLOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT I REPLIED TO HIM AND I AND I FORWARDED THE INFORMATION YOU FORWARDED ME
[02:15:03]
WITH OUR ORDINANCE. SO YEAH, I DID REPLY TO THAT GUY. VERY GOOD, VERY GOOD. ANYTHING ELSE[Executive Session]
THAT'S OF CONCERN FOR? ALL RIGHT. THEN I WILL TURN TO COUNCILOR FRANCIS, WHO IS OUR DE FACTO MOTION MAKER. I MOVE COUNCIL, MOVE INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS CONTAINED IN THE IDAHO CODE 742061C TO ACQUIRE AN INTEREST IN REAL PROPERTY NOT OWNED BY A PUBLIC AGENCY. THAT THING. OKAY, SECOND SECOND FROM FREEMAN AND CITY CLERK. WILL YOU CALL THE ROLL FRANCIS. FREEMAN. YES. DINGMAN. YES. LARSEN. YES. RADFORD A BURTENSHAW. YES.MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. WE'LL RECONVENE SHORTLY THE NEXT
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.